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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Tribunal discussion thread supporting FayeRC in case against NHS England starting 16/03/26

1000 replies

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 15/03/2026 23:58

Thanks for joining in this discussion in support of @FayeRC and the case against NHSE.

This is a private tribunal case, so there will be no live viewing, however TT will be covering and I'll be doing my best to cover it here, however my Monday has become very busy, so any support from PPs is welcomed!

Groundskeeping rules, let's all remain respectful in our discussions. I'm sure TT will cover the Judges expectations for coverage in the morning. This should be a lot smoother as this tribunal isn't open for public viewing and so a lot less scope for error, however discussion should be about what is accurately being reported on and not misrepresented.

FayeRC is a pseudonym and so I ask that if anybody recognises FayeRC throughout the tribunal we respect the anonymity requested.

There will also be current, and frequent gardening requests on the crowd justice page, please search Faye Russell-Caldicott crowd justice if you can support. We have less than 17 days to help raise another £40,000.

"I have issued an employment tribunal complaint against NHS England for indirect discrimination on the basis of sex (women), religion (Islam), philosophical belief (gender critical) and disability (PTSD) for having a policy in place which effectively renders the supposed single-sex toilet, changing room and showering facilities as mixed-sex.
According to NHSE’s trans staff policy, transwomen (born males) can use female facilities in addition to male and gender neutral facilities. Which means that NHSE expects women to share female facilities with biological males. If a woman is not happy with that, she is directed to use the gender neutral toilets, and transwomen (males) can continue using the female facilities. The policy is blatantly discriminatory against women, especially in those office bases where the showers are open plan.
Simultaneously, my claim also includes claims of direct discrimination, harassment and victimisation related to my philosophical belief (gender-critical).
This is one of the first cases in England where a court will be asked to decide whether such a trans staff policy is discriminatory against employees with other protected characteristics. There has been no Equality Impact Assessment conducted in relation to the policy. When developing the policy, NHSE did not thoroughly consider the needs of women or the implications of trauma and religion, or the normal and common boundary a female member of staff might assert that she just simply does not want to shower in direct line of sight with a biological male.
The response from NHSE has been extremely disappointing. I have been told that all staff members are expected to follow the policy. I have been told that NHSE is already offering single-sex female facilities, which can be used both by “those born female, and those who identify as female.” Their rationale for not excluding transwomen from women’s facilities is that “even if there would only be one transwoman excluded from the female facilities, we would consider that unjustifiable unlawful discrimination.” In its response, NHSE effectively denies the relevance of biological sex as the basis for single-sex spaces.
My claim is that the current staff policy is discriminatory on the basis of sex, religion, belief and disability and the facilities should be made female-only by excluding males.
I will be applying for full anonymity, which will be essential for me to take the case forward, given my personal circumstances. If my application for anonymity is not accepted at the preliminary hearing, I will pass all remaining donations to another case of my choice which seeks to secure women’s single-sex facilities or services.
Please help by donating and sharing the link. Like with all court cases, there is a risk of losing. This crowdfunding pays for my legal fees. I will not be benefitting financially from the crowdfunding because the money raised will go directly to my legal team’s client account. Any compensation from the employer is likely to be modest. I am pursuing this case because women’s rights to safe spaces, safeguarding and consent should not be overridden.
Yours faithfully,
Faye Russell-Caldicott"

From FayeRC's own thread, here is the broad summary of events that has lead to this tribunal:

  • A male colleague transitioned in 2022. We were told the person would use facilities of their preference. Staff in my Directorate were told what was expected from us and this was in effect immediately.
  • We had open plan changing room and showers and usual cubicle toilets.
  • I am an actual woman, Muslim, gender critical and have PTSD. I cannot share facilities with males.
  • Following this, I raised in 2022 that facilities were effectively mixed sex. NHSE disagreed and said they were offering single-sex facilities for those born female and those who identified as female.
  • Raising these issues internally was extremely difficult for me and did not lead to any changes to staff policy. I argued ‘sex’ in EqAct 2010 meant biological and therefore could not include males who identified as women. They did not agree. Their interpretation was that if even one transwoman was excluded from female facilities that was discrimination on the basis of gender reassignment. I did tell them nearly all transwomen retained their penis and those who had it removed were males nevertheless.
  • I was effectively pushed out from female facilities to use gender neutral toilets which I have continued to use to date.
  • One would have thought Fife, Darlington and SC ruling were helpful but they have not prompted any changes to policy to date.
  • After SC ruling an all staff announcement was made in support of everyone, including those with trans supportive views and ‘other views’. Policy was put on hold and under review but not removed. It remains so for nearly a year later.
  • They have been waiting for EHRC guidance (on public service provision). I have told them they are waiting for a wrong piece of guidance. This is an employer-employee matter.
  • Policy was created with support from trade unions, Stonewall and GIRES. No women’s organisations, trauma support organisations or religious organisations were involved in policy drafting.

As mentioned earlier, I'll do my best to keep up with TT, but I've had a curveball thrown at me this weekend which will take up a chunk of Monday, however I shall keep you all posted so if somebody can take over when I am not available for all those that aren't on TwiX that would be great, alternatively I'll be sure to post the summaries at each break and redirect to Nitter in the interim.

Thank you to everybody who has already shown FayeRC their support, let's get this some traction and help a fellow wim out.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
Bluebootsgreenboots · 18/03/2026 10:10

De lurking to say thank you to @Jimmyneutronsforeheadand of course thinking of you and Ddog today.

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 18/03/2026 10:14

The usual delay this morning it appears, wonder if SC is needing to take counsel.

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Jimmyneutronsforehead · 18/03/2026 10:21

J explaining the tribunal process to new observers and the anonymity orders.

Vivien Hodgskiss (VH) who was the original lead on NHS England transgender policy 2017 will recommence her evidence soon. J and barristers discussing electronic copies of papers which may have been held up by firewalls.

SC had the data Claimant's solicitor asked for.

J asks abt NHS mergers and staffing numbers.

SC says this witness or another witness might know.

Sc hands out the staff data to NC and the panel.

OP posts:
Jimmyneutronsforehead · 18/03/2026 10:29

SC- NC requested further stats on number of women and muslim women. WE can obtain them. Not sure why we need them. There is no issue abt what that policy means - eg biological men using women's facilities. Not sure where that takes us given no disagreement abt what the policy says and implications.

Am frum't tarn Simon, dunt mess wi me today. You obviously know why it is important information.

J - in terms of practicalities to finish as much of VH's evidence as we can then have VH released.

NC - content for VH to be released for advice on this matter.

NC has strong preference for VH to be released on this matter as her structure

SC - doesn't know of VH has looked independently at the data as SC hasn't spoken to VH (as she is giving evidence).

Agree to take break.

NC has sent doc on C's recommendations to J.

OP posts:
Jimmyneutronsforehead · 18/03/2026 10:32

J tells VH she is still under oath and can discuss the statistics only with SC and legal team. SC to ring for the clerk when ready to come back in. Court rises.

OP posts:
ProfNebulousDeadline · 18/03/2026 10:36

Thanks @Jimmyneutronsforehead and all the best for later today.

SC seems on particularly thin ice already this morning.

I would benefit from an understanding of how NHS England fits (fitted?) in with machinery of government. It isn't the stained front line NHS, nor is it Department of Health civil service. Is that right? The policy in question is covering office based staff not hospital/community workers?

BamsWereAtIt · 18/03/2026 10:37

Oh I didn't realise VH was the policy lead. Why does she act like she knows nothing about it?! 😂

MyAmpleSheep · 18/03/2026 10:39

BamsWereAtIt · 18/03/2026 10:37

Oh I didn't realise VH was the policy lead. Why does she act like she knows nothing about it?! 😂

just imagine Bernard asking that and figure out Sir Humphrey’s response.

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 18/03/2026 10:39

It's a mystery. I'd love to have one of these sorts of jobs because it appears you don't actually have to do any of the work.

OP posts:
BamsWereAtIt · 18/03/2026 10:42

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 18/03/2026 10:39

It's a mystery. I'd love to have one of these sorts of jobs because it appears you don't actually have to do any of the work.

Me too! Unfortunately, conscientiousness is a bar to getting these jobs.

MarieDeGournay · 18/03/2026 10:44

If there's a break in proceeding, any chance of elaborating on
Am frum't tarn Simon, dunt mess wi me today. please?
'Tarn' is a small lake/pond, right?
Why does being from one make you tough?🙃

MyAmpleSheep · 18/03/2026 10:44

BamsWereAtIt · 18/03/2026 10:42

Me too! Unfortunately, conscientiousness is a bar to getting these jobs.

conscientiousness

Apropos of nothing, make me envious and tell me you didn’t have to check the spelling at least twice.

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 18/03/2026 10:46

TT

A witness giving evidence at a tribunal must not discuss their evidence with anyone, including their own lawyers, while they are still under oath/affirmation and part-heard. So this was an exception so the witness can deal with the stats.

VH returns to the witness table. J repeats the warnings about the anonymity orders and no recordings. It would be a criminal offence.

-

I'll just be a few minutes behind for a little while. I will catch up quite fast though.

OP posts:
fanOfBen · 18/03/2026 11:00

"AI says" (sorry!)

"Frum't Tarn" isa phrase in the Yorkshire dialect of Northern England, specifically associated with the town of Barnsley. Meaning: It translates to "From the Tarn". Context: 'T Tarn: A local nickname for the town of Barnsley. Frum: The Yorkshire dialect pronunciation of "from". Usage: It is often used by Barnsley FC supporters or locals, for example, "Am not frum t'tarn" (I am not from the town/Barnsley).

Why people not from Barnsley are particularly not to be messed with, I'm not sure...

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 18/03/2026 11:02

SC: Nc assed you if you had figures for the gender divide male & female. You did go away and check that. Figs 63% female 37% as at end of January 2026.

VH: total number of muslims declared 1067 male and female. Number of colleagues who haven't declared ethnicity or religion.

SC 15817 head count.

SC: Gives page reference and bullet points re mergers and staff numbers - October

J - I can see form doc handed up today there is a breakdown.

NC: 1067 employees given muslim affiliation - a minimum number. We don't know how many haven't declared. We can't make assumption same % of men and women. Fair assumption some 100s of muslim women employed by NHSE. VH I would agree.

NC: definitions {in a policy] para 2.1 Trans is an umbrella term to describe people [too fast] gender queer, gender fluid, crossdresser ... agender, two spirit,]...neutrois

Could you provide an explanation of all the terms if asked?

VH No. Missed.

NC would youagree that cross dresser includes fetish..missed VH not necessarily. Not the only possibility.

NC: Would you agree that trans includes those who may be cross dressing for erotic purposes?

VH: full time presenting [missed]

NC: GIRES policy - p25 Definition of trangender - diff meanings - used as inclusive term for all that falls out of gender norms ..including those whoc ross dress for erotic reasons.

VH - link to a doc that may be useful. Guidance talks about presenting full time in opposite gender.

NC - drag artistes and role permanently but distinctions more blurred. Some who live permanently in the opposite sex, may have a history of cross dressing for erotic

purposes.

VH asks for clarification.

NC - clear some who now present permanently as the opposite sex may in the past have cross dressed for erotic purposes. Possible?

VH; Yes.

NC - if have a history then could still be doing it for erotic purposes? Fair?

VH: Yes.

NC - instruction [to use women's spaces] given whatever the underlying reason for someone presenting habitually as a woman.

VH ; being inclusive

NC - you've said the permisssion to use opp sex facilities is reserved to permanently - no way to police it. If he says he's a woman you have to accept that.

VH Yes

NC Could be a man whose wife won't stand for it just X dressing at work. No way of knowing.

VH: we have a support package

OP posts:
Jimmyneutronsforehead · 18/03/2026 11:04

fanOfBen · 18/03/2026 11:00

"AI says" (sorry!)

"Frum't Tarn" isa phrase in the Yorkshire dialect of Northern England, specifically associated with the town of Barnsley. Meaning: It translates to "From the Tarn". Context: 'T Tarn: A local nickname for the town of Barnsley. Frum: The Yorkshire dialect pronunciation of "from". Usage: It is often used by Barnsley FC supporters or locals, for example, "Am not frum t'tarn" (I am not from the town/Barnsley).

Why people not from Barnsley are particularly not to be messed with, I'm not sure...

Cos we're frum't tarn, obvs 😉

OP posts:
ProfNebulousDeadline · 18/03/2026 11:05

Tarn= town?

MarieDeGournay · 18/03/2026 11:06

fanOfBen · 18/03/2026 11:00

"AI says" (sorry!)

"Frum't Tarn" isa phrase in the Yorkshire dialect of Northern England, specifically associated with the town of Barnsley. Meaning: It translates to "From the Tarn". Context: 'T Tarn: A local nickname for the town of Barnsley. Frum: The Yorkshire dialect pronunciation of "from". Usage: It is often used by Barnsley FC supporters or locals, for example, "Am not frum t'tarn" (I am not from the town/Barnsley).

Why people not from Barnsley are particularly not to be messed with, I'm not sure...

Thank you! I was wondering if tarn=town not pond!
I knew from context that frum=from, not frum=Yiddish for religiously observant😃
'Don't mess with us townies', then!

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 18/03/2026 11:07

NC: Unison fact sheet which policy points to - 11.40.

Single Sex facilities heading where SS facilities, TG worker shd use according to the gender which they attend work. Confirms what you say in policy.

NC: Advice at para 4.11.1 in policy - if we think abt that advice - accessed according to full time presentation regardless, inc men who cross dress for erotic purposes, means female users must accept ... men who cross dress for erotic purposes showering with them

VH: we spoke abt areas of building we managed. But yes I accept.

well manage them better.

NC exposed unknown women wit PTSD to risk

VH: we did what we thought was right, inclusivity and support regardless of background.

OP posts:
borntobequiet · 18/03/2026 11:07

fanOfBen · 18/03/2026 11:00

"AI says" (sorry!)

"Frum't Tarn" isa phrase in the Yorkshire dialect of Northern England, specifically associated with the town of Barnsley. Meaning: It translates to "From the Tarn". Context: 'T Tarn: A local nickname for the town of Barnsley. Frum: The Yorkshire dialect pronunciation of "from". Usage: It is often used by Barnsley FC supporters or locals, for example, "Am not frum t'tarn" (I am not from the town/Barnsley).

Why people not from Barnsley are particularly not to be messed with, I'm not sure...

I once knew someone from Barnsley you definitely wouldn’t mess with.

(I know not all Barnsleyites are not like that though.)

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 18/03/2026 11:08

MarieDeGournay · 18/03/2026 11:06

Thank you! I was wondering if tarn=town not pond!
I knew from context that frum=from, not frum=Yiddish for religiously observant😃
'Don't mess with us townies', then!

We do occasionally require subtitles for people to understand us.

OP posts:
MyAmpleSheep · 18/03/2026 11:10

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 18/03/2026 11:07

NC: Unison fact sheet which policy points to - 11.40.

Single Sex facilities heading where SS facilities, TG worker shd use according to the gender which they attend work. Confirms what you say in policy.

NC: Advice at para 4.11.1 in policy - if we think abt that advice - accessed according to full time presentation regardless, inc men who cross dress for erotic purposes, means female users must accept ... men who cross dress for erotic purposes showering with them

VH: we spoke abt areas of building we managed. But yes I accept.

well manage them better.

NC exposed unknown women wit PTSD to risk

VH: we did what we thought was right, inclusivity and support regardless of background.

we did what we thought was right

And now that you know you were wrong, why are you still fighting this case?

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 18/03/2026 11:11

NC_ adopted with good intentions but wholly inadequate attention to [needs of women].

VH: no feedback from women who could have raised through formal HR channels, freedom to speak and policy feedback [online] - a channel which could have been

used.

ah, get your bingo cards ready for this one.

VH I believe even one feedback woud have openeed up the discussion. No intention to exclude or have a negative effect on

anybody.

NC head of People Strategy, Very senior? VH: I reported in 4 levels below. HR

director.

NC - so you'd keep abreast fo the law?

VH we developed a team that led on EDI. Responsibility of updates, legislation and the law would be that group. Didn't exonerate me. i kept up with emp law changes.

OP posts:
MarieDeGournay · 18/03/2026 11:11

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 18/03/2026 11:08

We do occasionally require subtitles for people to understand us.

Smile I'm multilingual enough to recognise 'toon' and 'tahn' for town, but 'tarn' threw me, temporarilySmile

MyAmpleSheep · 18/03/2026 11:13

VH I believe even one feedback woud have openeed up the discussion

At what point do you cotton on that a process that ends up escalating to an Employment Tribunal is “feedback”?

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