Oh fuck OFF, Emily Thornberry

[teawamutu]

Apparently we all need to be kinder and women's rights protections were a wrong turning: https://nation.cymru/news/emily-thornberry-labour-has-ended-up-in-the-wrong-place-on-trans-people/

She's such a disappointment. I remember just before I realised what she believed, thinking that she'd be really sensible about this. It was a real shock to hear her - actually though I don't believe for a minute that she really believes it. I don't think any of them do.

You can't trust her with anything once you know she doesn't believe in basic biology.

This basically

she's either thick (which I don't believe) because she thinks you can change sex or she's knows you can't but she's prepared to lie about it because beeee kiiiind/trans relative effect

She probably does believe in biology, but with a transman cousin she had the choice between soothing her cousin's feelings and sticking with the truth. When trans was all the rage she made the conscious choice to soothe her cousin; now that it is the beginning of the end she has painted herself into a corner and is very unlikely to be able to exit it.

Regardless, there really are only two possibilities:

1. She's a believer and not to be trusted
2. She's willing to lie for personal and/or political reasons, and therefore not to be trusted

oops, outed ;)

Yep, if you'll lie about this, you'll lie about anything

She always reminds me of Kirstie Allsopp - utterly lacking in critical thinking skills, but truly believes the nonsense she comes out with because it's all just about being kind. Women just really shouldn't complain so much and then we wouldn't be in the mess we're in.

That's interesting - what a pity she's not your MP so you could ask her directly why on earth she's prepared to go public with obvious untruths.

It's interesting that she can take a laudably humane, sensible and fact-based approach to other issues, but her brain apparently gets switched off when it comes to trans issues.
Her brain gets switched off - or possibly her honesty, if she actually knows that what she says about the trans community is not true.

Either way, it isn't consistent with what we expect in a public representative is it?

It is also noteworthy that the trans issue causes someone that you have reason to believe is 'genuine and dedicated' to go on record with statements that she either should, or does, know are not true.

She was talking on TV about trans people being the most marginalised and vulnerable only a few weeks ago. Probably on Laura K’s show when Hilary Cass was on.

We…………indulging!

I believe that people with learning disabilities are the most vulnerable actually

Look at this comparing trans suffering to refugees’ and Palestinians’:

'My rights as a trans person, and therefore as a marginalised person, are linked directly to the rights of refugees who are facing horrific prejudice and violence, and to people in Palestine who continue to live through genocide.

'The marginalised are so often political tools with which wars are waged to keep the powerful powerful.

But we aren't pawns - we're people full of love and life and talent and brilliance and minds and hearts, who deserve every right and every protection and deserve peace.

Plus, the huge leap between

“They’re most likely to get beaten up. They’re the ones who are most likely to have prejudice against them. We should not be indulging in anything that marginalises them even more.”

To concluding the only possible way to protect and support trans women is to remove any right or expectation of sex-based protection and support from female people.

I don't think they believe it, I think they infantilise trans people as fragile souls who have to be accomodated by everyone else pandering to their delusions.

She has no idea - most women do not want penises in their bathroom. She often goes to Rabbi Mendy’s for Friday nights- we can contact him to speak some sense.

I remember when she posted an image of a house with a large England flag and made some derogatory remark. Such a stupid thing for a politician to do, so, yes she is a bit thick and in the Westminster bubble.

TBH, I simply don't understand how an obvious woman of intelligence and capability can simply turn off her critical thinking skills when it comes to this issue; Helena Kennedy is another one. I simply don't get it. They both seem to keep talking about 'kindness' and 'understanding' as if this is supposed to negate all of the reasons we sometimes have single sex protections.
They turn all 'baby brain' -whilst also simultaneously talking about 'women's rights' and 'violence against women'. Helena Kennedy even wrote that great book 'Eve Was Framed'.

It is the resulting pushing the whole business on to children as part of being kind to trans that is unforgivable. That unless you teach children about people having gender identities and being trans you are creating section 28 and literally erasing trans peoples’ existences.

Then you tell those children you have made think they might be transgender that they are a victimised minority, and that they might kill themselves if they can’t get trans affirming care.

Perhaps she is a good constituency MP but in the article she is lying to the public, which is repulsive, particularly when she couches her lies in terms designed to imply that she is somehow better informed & more sophisticated than those who disagree with her.

I would say that a person who does not exercise critical thinking skills is not intelligent. We actually have a problem in society about how we frame intellectual capability. What we generally label as "intelligence" is a performative process; people act in a certain way, and express themselves in certain ways, and get regarded as intelligent by others; one performs "intelligence" for respect. The reality is that this is often as far as the intellectual capabilities of an individual goes, and gaps in critical thinking are often very telling in terms of intellectual ability.

I know
Why do they always go there when it's been debunked countless times?
It's like they think if they repeat it enough it'll somehow magically become true.
A bit like TWAW I suppose.

I think the incident she apologised for when she tweeted a sarky comment about a white van household when she was canvassing is very telling. It is like when Lucy Powell said that those calling for a grooming gangs enquiry were engaging in dog whistle politics. They can apologise all they like but they have already revealed themselves as smug and privileged and out of touch with ordinary people.

I think she's wrong in this, and i disagree with her about other issues, but i think the overarching problem is that posters automatically jump to say that she's stupid.
What future is there in society if we can't accept that other people don't share our opinions?

I've read the article now. I held off because I knew it would annoy me. There is no substance in what she says. Where specifically does she think Labour have gone wrong on trans rights? Does she think Labour should be doing more to encourage people to circumvent the law? Bridget Phillipson is already refusing to law the EHRC code of practice before parliament.

And what does mean suggesting that the Labour Party are not looking after trans people? I haven't listened to the podcast that the article is based on, but I wonder if she is challenged on any of this? Where is her evidence that trans people are most likely to get beaten up?

And this, quite frankly, in bollocks “I think some of this social conservatism that was being promoted did not come naturally to us. We are not a socially conservative party". Traditional working class Labour voters (e.g in the North) have tended to be socially conservative, as well as Muslim voters. Who she is talking about are metropolitan labour voters, in London etc., which just goes to show how completely out of touch she is. She doesn't think people can be socially conservative and economically left wing. It is why Labour will never win back many voters in the red wall. And people like her have a complete blind spot and think the only threat now facing the Labour party is from the Greens.

I don't think she is stupid, but I do find it depressing when intelligent people are completely blinkered and detached from reality because of the circles they move in.