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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

John Davison BAFTA Tourette’s incident and competing rights

866 replies

slet · 24/02/2026 15:39

It’s interesting how this is being discussed atm. I see Ash Sarkar has framed it as an example of competing rights between disabled people and victims of racism, forgetting about intersectionality. But there is a struggle from those on the extreme left to see how women’s rights are compromised by ceding to TRAs.

not expressing myself very well but thought it had some interesting parallels with the sex and gender debate.

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Hulloola · 24/02/2026 21:12

NewYearSameMe16 · 24/02/2026 20:18

What a stupid response; inadequate planning and not attempting to mitigate a situation like this is what’s led to days of global debates around race and disability.

And you don’t get to tell black people, whose lives and experiences you have no clue about, how they get to feel about this.

Individuals ‘get to feel’ however they like, but society decides what the proportionate handling of such situations is and I don’t think your suggestion is proportionate. The only thing that should have been different imo is that the BBC should have cut it out of the broadcast. I don’t know why they didn’t.

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 24/02/2026 21:12

NewYearSameMe16 · 24/02/2026 21:07

This may be the dumbest comment I’ve seen so far 😂 Sinners is set in the 1930s and features the KKK so deals with themes of RACISM, which you say this absolutely was not, so where’s the comparison??

Because people are saying the word is so horrendous that they can’t bear to hear it yet it is used a lot in films and music. 🤷🏻‍♀️

nicepotoftea · 24/02/2026 21:12

KitWyn · 24/02/2026 21:05

The person who is probably most desperately upset by all of this is John Davidson. So by virtuously 'tolerating his presence', they've caused him great additional pain and unimaginable shame.

I am so very angry with both BAFTA and the BBC. They just thought yes, the politically correct thing to do is have John in the audience. We'll warn everyone in advance and he'll shout F and C a few times. But that's fine. We'll all look a bit edgy and very, very inclusive. Everything is going to be fine.

Did they really not consider the possibility he'd shout the N-word at black attendees? By definition, John has zero control over saying the worst possible words to the worst possible listener. The N-word shouted at black presenters on stage was the worst possible case, and hence the most likely one.

Yet the BBC weren't even primed and ready to bleep/remove any shouted obscenities prior to the public broadcast. They were all doing the morally right and inclusive thing, so they would be rewarded by plaudits and ratings. Everything is going to be fine.

How stupid can these supposedly intelligent and experienced media professionals be?

I feel very sorry for Delroy Lindo and Michael B Jordan. That was wholly unacceptable, and they deserve abject grovelling apologies from both the BBC and BAFTA.

But I feel most sorry for John Davidson. His life with Tourette's syndrome was already very hard. And their stupidity has made it even more difficult and painful.

I agree that the BBC's actions are baffling, but you haven't explained what you think should have happened - do you think Davidson should have been excluded?

How is that a solution?

OhDear111 · 24/02/2026 21:14

If I was the bbc I’d ditch it. They have had trouble with music awards too. Just put edited highlights out - or low lights.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 24/02/2026 21:14

Hulloola · 24/02/2026 21:12

Individuals ‘get to feel’ however they like, but society decides what the proportionate handling of such situations is and I don’t think your suggestion is proportionate. The only thing that should have been different imo is that the BBC should have cut it out of the broadcast. I don’t know why they didn’t.

I agree with this and agree that the BBC should’ve cut it out, but it’s performative outrage.

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 24/02/2026 21:20

RedToothBrush · 24/02/2026 17:01

The issue here is you can only make accomodations for Tourettes by awareness and explanation. You can't actually stop what they are saying. They are always going to offend. And they will offend in what is essentially a none discriminatory way although some individuals will be more upset by it than others. Their intent is never one that is self centred or malicious. It's a truly awful condition.

In a situation where someone is having a severe bout of Tourettes tics, they are actively very vulnerable and at risk at that moment. They come about due to stress so trying to minimise that and prepare people in advance is necessary because it reduces the potential impact in many scenarios. However it can be in literally any situation from walking down the street, to dropping the kids off, to shopping that the impact happens and is very visible.

And being completely honest you can't stop people being offended. That's the nature of the disability. There is no nuance. There is no compromise which doesn't restrict the life of the person to being homebound or institutionalised.

In terms of the issue for sex and gender, genderists demand validation and compliance that goes beyond wanting rights and respect. They are actively rejecting third party spaces that can be used by everyone - the point is they are using the women in spaces and using others for validation. Transwomen also are not the most vulnerable in every scenario unlike is the case for someone in the midst of a Tourettes episode.

This means the harms and balancing of rights issues are massively different.

You aren't getting another group who are being impacted negatively more than others in the same way. There isn't issues over intent and motivations. There are third party solutions available. There aren't doubts over medicalisation and how you treat different cohorts - it's a medical condition that doesn't rely on fantasy wording and power and control dynamics. It has a clear set of diagnostic criteria and can be described in a way that would have a clear legal definition.

I got really upset by the thread last night because I have a friend with Tourettes. Having spent time with her doing normal things it brings it home how awful the condition is. It's exhausting just being around her. If she's having an episode it's immediately obvious what it is from her physical tics as well as her verbalisation which is notably different from normal communication. It's identifiable even if you didn't know she had Tourettes. You'd be able to work it out she had it. Indeed telling people what's going on they say "well we thought that was the case but we weren't sure" because they havent seen Tourettes 'in the wild' so to speak and for the most part the explanation is enough. Mainly cos her distress and discomfort is very much on display. You can't fake it.

I am comfortable with her being around my son. We have explained it and he gets it. It can be funny. It can be heartbreaking. It can be offensive. It can be embarrassing for those around her. It can put them at risk too. The best thing to do is literally to ignore it because it reduces the stress and anxiety and the tics are more likely to stop and stop more quickly. Staring, making comments or going on about how awful someone is behaving only makes the problem worse which isn't what anyone involved wants.

Honestly if you spend time with someone with severe Tourettes you would soon get over the concept of being offended even if they were saying the most offensive thing ever because you can visibly see the trauma and distress it's causing the person doing it. Even if you initially get upset, you very quickly realise just how awful the condition is and how there isn't offense made. Frankly if you are getting offended I question your own empathy levels - if you are expecting respect and tolerance you need to be able to give it too.

The idea that anyone is being racist, homophobic, etc etc when you see such an episode first hand is really laughable.

Where I have a problem with this current debate is the problem with discussion on the subject on social media is it's coming from people who have had no experience of this and don't have the visual feedback to also consider. Its a theoretical debate not one based on reality. It's a social media story and social experience into thoughts and politics instead of a reflection on the actual condition. It's all about just focusing on the word(s) used not the full behaviour manifestation. As soon as you see this this, it has a very different context and people can see it as well just focusing on the word and the concept of offense being the best all and end all. A tic is visual not just verbal.

The two actors on stage would have seen that from where they were stood. If they don't have prior knowledge and experience of Tourettes it could have completely thrown them and bewildered them. That wasn't fair. But no one was being racist.

They should have been better prepared and informed in advance - for both them and John's benefit. But honestly if you want people with Tourettes to be part of society as anyone else you just have to roll with it unfortunately. Otherwise you are advocating for active significant discrimination on the basis of disability. Being offended by it is unavoidable in certain scenarios but it's not actionable against the person doing it due to their capacity issues and their intent and this is the really important factor. Someone choosing which sexed space to use, is actively free to make that choice in that moment. They have a deliberate attempt to access wrong sex facilities. They have capacity to do this. If they reject third spaces again this is an active choice that isn't available for someone with Tourettes.

There was a massive duty of care failure that occurred by the organisers and broadcasters. This falls on them not the individuals concerned. It has to be a preemptive rather than reactionary response in terms of how you make accomodations and balance rights (which actually isn't a realistic thing to do in many situations - for example if you are out at a restaurant, leaving the restaurant could put someone much more at risk outside from passers by and just changes the situation rather than stopping it). You cant punish or force apologies.

And no he shouldn't apologise for a disability. It should be an explanation instead.

Even then the person is still at risk. And apologising doesn't really help the situation a lot of the time if the next thing you say is a whole bunch of other abusive stuff.

Honestly, I've really not seen many medical conditions I think are this appalling. It's a slow life long torture that impacts on every level of a persons life. You can't compare it to the sex and gender issue. Frankly I think it's offensive to do so and shows a very low level of understanding of the condition.

This is one of the best posts I have ever read in 18 years on MN. Thank you @RedToothBrush 👏

NewYearSameMe16 · 24/02/2026 21:20

@BlueEyedBogWitch Rapist and paedo aren’t slurs based on marginalised groups, he could’ve called anyone that. I’m aware it was said due to his condition. That doesn’t mean that black people should be subjected to it and no steps taken to try and prevent it. We’re also now sliding into the dangerous territory of ‘it’s said in rap music in an entirely different context, so in this situation, these black people should just accept it’.

@AccidentallyWesAnderson Cunt is also not a slur specific to a demographic but show me where I said white, straight, Christian men couldn’t be offended? Notice all the different characteristics I covered outside of race but you only choose to hone in on that. If John had yelled offensive terms at a white, straight Christian man, they’d have every right to be offended but without hundreds of years of oppression attached, I think it’d be far less likely.

OtterlyAstounding · 24/02/2026 21:21

DamsonGoldfinch · 24/02/2026 20:32

Sorry, Davidson.

Bafta sent a message to all attendees warning them. Everyone who could potentially been offended could have chosen to self exclude. Which basically means anyone who could be potentially slurred.

or they could all act like grown ups.

Out of curiosity - if someone did self-exclude, without any fuss or complaining, because they didn't want to risk having something shouted at them (perhaps they know they have certain sensitivities or triggers, and don't want to risk being triggered), would you judge them for that and say that they should act like grown ups?

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 24/02/2026 21:24

I think it's a new low for the bbc and the entertainment industry, not mention some of the people posting on this thread.
The drama llamas at the BAFT's are showing their true colours when they pile on someone with a disability, it's not like this condition is not known about, apart from some dim witted posters on this thread, and apparently other threads, who doesn't know what Tourette's is? 🤯

nicepotoftea · 24/02/2026 21:24

NewYearSameMe16 · 24/02/2026 21:20

@BlueEyedBogWitch Rapist and paedo aren’t slurs based on marginalised groups, he could’ve called anyone that. I’m aware it was said due to his condition. That doesn’t mean that black people should be subjected to it and no steps taken to try and prevent it. We’re also now sliding into the dangerous territory of ‘it’s said in rap music in an entirely different context, so in this situation, these black people should just accept it’.

@AccidentallyWesAnderson Cunt is also not a slur specific to a demographic but show me where I said white, straight, Christian men couldn’t be offended? Notice all the different characteristics I covered outside of race but you only choose to hone in on that. If John had yelled offensive terms at a white, straight Christian man, they’d have every right to be offended but without hundreds of years of oppression attached, I think it’d be far less likely.

Can you explain why it's acceptable in the context of music but not in the context of an involuntary tic?

NewYearSameMe16 · 24/02/2026 21:28

Hulloola · 24/02/2026 21:12

Individuals ‘get to feel’ however they like, but society decides what the proportionate handling of such situations is and I don’t think your suggestion is proportionate. The only thing that should have been different imo is that the BBC should have cut it out of the broadcast. I don’t know why they didn’t.

So you think proper education on the subject prior to the show, a sincere on air apology to the actors and check-ins with both parties afterwards is a ‘disproportionate’ response for an event broadcast to millions globally? I think that’s the bare minimum. If it’d happened, maybe this situation wouldn’t have taken place and these sort of discussions wouldn’t be happening.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 24/02/2026 21:28

@NewYearSameMe16 - what part of involuntary tic are you having trouble with

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 24/02/2026 21:29

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ticktickticktickBOOM · 24/02/2026 21:31

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If Jamie Foxx hadn't been such a complete bell-end about it, it wouldn't have even been a story

nicepotoftea · 24/02/2026 21:31

Do many people watch the BAFTAs in a normal year? I'm surprised that anyone outside the UK has much awareness of what they are.

BlueEyedBogWitch · 24/02/2026 21:32

NewYearSameMe16 · 24/02/2026 21:20

@BlueEyedBogWitch Rapist and paedo aren’t slurs based on marginalised groups, he could’ve called anyone that. I’m aware it was said due to his condition. That doesn’t mean that black people should be subjected to it and no steps taken to try and prevent it. We’re also now sliding into the dangerous territory of ‘it’s said in rap music in an entirely different context, so in this situation, these black people should just accept it’.

@AccidentallyWesAnderson Cunt is also not a slur specific to a demographic but show me where I said white, straight, Christian men couldn’t be offended? Notice all the different characteristics I covered outside of race but you only choose to hone in on that. If John had yelled offensive terms at a white, straight Christian man, they’d have every right to be offended but without hundreds of years of oppression attached, I think it’d be far less likely.

He couldn’t have called a woman a rapist.

Anyway, that’s by the by. Do you genuinely not understand that he couldn’t help it? Or do you not believe it?

He couldn’t help it. It wasn’t his fault. He didn’t mean it. I don’t know how to make it clearer.

OtterlyAstounding · 24/02/2026 21:34

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Please tell me you're black.

(Personally, no, I winced rather than laughing.)

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 24/02/2026 21:36

nicepotoftea · 24/02/2026 21:31

Do many people watch the BAFTAs in a normal year? I'm surprised that anyone outside the UK has much awareness of what they are.

No, and awards shows in general now. Always a virtue signalling speech horned in and when it’s BAFTA a British actor always get it no matter who the nominees are. For once I thought Robert Aramayo deserved it though.

DamsonGoldfinch · 24/02/2026 21:37

OtterlyAstounding · 24/02/2026 21:21

Out of curiosity - if someone did self-exclude, without any fuss or complaining, because they didn't want to risk having something shouted at them (perhaps they know they have certain sensitivities or triggers, and don't want to risk being triggered), would you judge them for that and say that they should act like grown ups?

In this case? Yes. Because it’s a word that in Jamie Foxx’s case he’s had shouted at him repeatedly when he’s acting. He isn’t ’triggered’. He’s saying that his ethnicity trumps Davidson’s disability.

NewYearSameMe16 · 24/02/2026 21:38

nicepotoftea · 24/02/2026 21:24

Can you explain why it's acceptable in the context of music but not in the context of an involuntary tic?

I don’t use the word and would prefer if it wasn’t used in rap, mainly to avoid situations like this where its usage is then used against black people. There’s a whole history around the reclamation of the word (similar to the F word in gay culture) which I don’t have time to go into but feel free to google it if you are interested.

I also never said it was unacceptable in relation to it being a tic; my point is around acknowledgment of MBJ and DL’s feelings in this situation and how they’ve been dismissed.

OtterlyAstounding · 24/02/2026 21:40

DamsonGoldfinch · 24/02/2026 21:37

In this case? Yes. Because it’s a word that in Jamie Foxx’s case he’s had shouted at him repeatedly when he’s acting. He isn’t ’triggered’. He’s saying that his ethnicity trumps Davidson’s disability.

I'm not talking about Jamie Foxx.

I'm saying if any person invited to the BAFTAs were to self-exclude, politely and good-naturedly, because they know they are sensitive to being triggered by a slur or shouted insult and would rather avoid the possibility, would you judge them negatively? And if so, why?

aileme · 24/02/2026 21:41

It was really unfortunate but he has Tourette's that's what happens. He was excited and so his tics were particularly noticeable. He literally couldn't help it and he's apologised obviously mortified what else can he do, hide under a rock the rest of his life. That doesn't seem fair at all. I'm sure most people have empathy for what he must be going though now and what he lives with day to day.

NewYearSameMe16 · 24/02/2026 21:42

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 24/02/2026 21:28

@NewYearSameMe16 - what part of involuntary tic are you having trouble with

What part of ‘the feelings of two black men who were called a slur on global TV should be acknowledged’ are you having trouble with? My POV is nothing to do with John Davidson’s condition but all about the comments that MBJ and DL are millionaire snowflakes who should get over it.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 24/02/2026 21:42

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TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 24/02/2026 21:42

MBJ and DL’s feelings in this situation and how they’ve been dismissed.

They're grown men, they can't take it on the chin when they know that it's an involuntary tic. Not many people got away with telling the Queen to 'fuck' and she didn't turn a hair.

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