John Davison BAFTA Tourette’s incident and competing rights

[slet]

It’s interesting how this is being discussed atm. I see Ash Sarkar has framed it as an example of competing rights between disabled people and victims of racism, forgetting about intersectionality. But there is a struggle from those on the extreme left to see how women’s rights are compromised by ceding to TRAs.

not expressing myself very well but thought it had some interesting parallels with the sex and gender debate.

That particular tic was triggered by the environment he was in.

If there was no intent and it was out of his control, why are people asking him to take responsibility?

Because @OtterlyAstounding feels guilty and they’d like everyone to feel the same guilt I think.

Personally, while at first I thought perhaps, maybe, he should, now I don't. So you'd have to ask someone who does think that.

Considering people can literally see what I wrote you’re not coming out of this well.

go to bed.

Great! Progress!

Asking for a friend - if the guy who made the involuntary verbal tick, was not white, would that have been ok?

hypothetical question of course.

Who is this terrible troll?

tell me their name and we can group report them.

Ahhhhhhh that explains everything!!!

carry on carry on, I had no idea you suffered from that issue.

I admire your resilience @OtterlyAstounding

These people are not worthy of your time or energy.

I am though.

I'd disagree. You arrived asking if you were the only person who'd laughed because of how hilarious this all was. One of the few things people can probably agree on is that this isn't hilarious for anyone involved. But you seem to be enjoying being deliberately outrageous and then switching to 'give me reasons, this is how we reach a shared understanding' comments which frankly don't come across as authentic or credible. But I guess you've had a fun evening. I reached my 'not a serious person' point with it a while ago. As I said, though, you keep going. You're doing well at showing people what you are. Do the work for us!

Didn’t say the onus was 100% on the actors. Frankly, given that they were presenting, they should have had individual briefings to be prepared for anything to be shouted at them. This is on BAFTA and the BBC.

I’m saying they (and you) are wrong to blame the disabled person. His form of Tourette’s is one where his brain comes up with the most hurtful and inappropriate thing possible - and then shouts it out loud. He’s been attacked on the streets because of his disability and he’s been arrested because of it. He has no control over his outbursts.

The statement you want him to make is to say that this painful and hurtful disability has yet again caused pain and hurt. Why? So that Michael B Jordan and Delroy Lindo can recognise that John Davison understands the disability he’s had to live with all his life?

Yes, you have mentioned that BAFTA and the BBC are at fault (and that was your very first post). But for over half your posts you’ve been punching down. You have been insisting that the person who does not have agency over his speech recognise publicly… that his lack of agency causes people to suffer.

And yet….

here you are…..

And I’m still waiting for someone to explain the racism or indeed back up their point

and I’ve got a fat pile of thanks hearts support etc on that comment so clearly not just me. Lighten up. This whole thing has made my week.

Maybe it’s because only you think it’s a problem and we’ve already discovered why.

there is no racism here. If there was you could point at it.

what a week to be alive!

They’re feeding off the attention you’re giving them. I also salute your efforts btw, but they’re either being purposely cringy or genuinely are totally ignorant.

Stop deliberately misunderstanding what I’ve said. Neither myself or the actors have blamed JD for this. And I don’t need you to explain his condition to me.

The statement you want him to make is to say that this painful and hurtful disability has yet again caused pain and hurt. Why? So that Michael B Jordan and Delroy Lindo can recognise that John Davison understands the disability he’s had to live with all his life?
We live in a civilised society where even if you unintentionally hurt someone you can still acknowledge it. Especially in such a public way involving such a horrible term. If JD is a decent person, he’d have empathy and look to address it directly in this extreme circumstance. We’d also expect the actors to reciprocate that empathy but it should be mutual as they were both in a horrible situation.

As referenced earlier, if my brakes fail and I hit someone, I’d want to see that they’re OK, recognise the pain they felt and express that I wish it didn’t happen, even though I didn’t intend it. I wouldn’t just say ‘I couldn’t control the car; it’s not my fault, take it up with the car company’. The consensus that JD shouldn’t show any compassion or understanding for MBJ and DL’s experience in this specific situation because he has a disability is a point of view I don’t agree with and that’s what I’ve been doubling down on. If you don’t agree, frankly I do not care.

Imagine wanting people with Tourette’s to spend their whole lives apologising for their disability.

Or thinking they should stay in a plush vip box

Or just not be at a ceremony at all

Their disability is offensive. And although they like to think they’re inclusive, none of this is apparently problematic

Yes, I agree it's unfair to want to exclude people because of a disability like this.

He shouldn't have been restricted to a VIP box, although maybe something like that should be offered, so he has a choice to both be there, and not have his tics noticed? But it shouldn't be pushed on him at all.

He also shouldn't be blamed for something he can't control, although I think personally (not a moral judgement on others) I'd apologise in this case - and it seems he has made a few statements that express his mortification.

The BBC should have protected both him and the black actors better from a media furore by bleeping out the word.

I do think that some of the racism that has been displayed by some of the people discussing the issue has been disturbing, though. I also think that some people are being obtuse and unable to see things from others' perspectives in regards to people potentially feeling upset by the tics (while still not blaming Davidson).

His Tourettes isn't a one off situation like brakes failing. It's his entire life.

Can you not see the difference between having a severely life limiting disability and your example of a fender bender?

I actually think its entirely likely at this point that the people involved have spoken to each other, but you seem to want a public apology.

And why can’t you see that this is a unique situation which might require a different approach to how he deals with his disability day to day? Maybe he shouldn’t waste his time apologising to a random woman in a supermarket for saying fuck within earshot (which I’ve seen him do in a video) and instead acknowledge the two men who were hurt and embarrassed on national TV.

Not sure how many more times I can say he doesn’t need to apologise. I believe he should make a public statement about it as the incident was in front of millions and because when he did address it, he failed to mention the two people involved. As I’ve said, it could be a good moment for mutual empathy with a public response from MBJ and DL and then the whole thing can be put to bed.

Why are the two men on the stage (who have been warned about his tics) more vulnerable than a woman on the street?