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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Custody officer job withdrawn for GC beliefs - Thread 2

14 replies

Another2Cats · 04/02/2026 15:40

This is a continuation of this thread [edited for typo]

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5384528-custody-officer-job-withdrawn-for-gc-beliefs-gribbon-sp-legal-team-is-his-solicitor?page=1

OP posts:
heathspeedwell · 04/02/2026 16:16

Thank you for the new thread.

AnSolas · 04/02/2026 18:20

Thanks for the new thread.

I aim to link in the first post of each part of the witness examination so that readers hop to thread 1 to a witness at DT legal "side" or "GA" legal side.

NB
redirects are ignored as they will be at the end of the GA/DT section

Feel free to correct errors in my links as needed🙈

Eg first link about TT is here

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5384528-custody-officer-job-withdrawn-for-gc-beliefs-gribbon-sp-legal-team-is-his-solicitor?page=3&reply=150162243

Opening post by TT
■■■■

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5384528-custody-officer-job-withdrawn-for-gc-beliefs-gribbon-sp-legal-team-is-his-solicitor?page=4&reply=150163415

Witness : David Toshack

DT legal

■■■■

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5384528-custody-officer-job-withdrawn-for-gc-beliefs-gribbon-sp-legal-team-is-his-solicitor?page=13&reply=150183943

Witness : David Toshack

GA legal

■■■■

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5384528-custody-officer-job-withdrawn-for-gc-beliefs-gribbon-sp-legal-team-is-his-solicitor?page=28&reply=150206063

Stephan Weir

DT legal

■■■■

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5384528-custody-officer-job-withdrawn-for-gc-beliefs-gribbon-sp-legal-team-is-his-solicitor?page=28&reply=150206329

Stephan Weir

GA legal

■■■■

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5384528-custody-officer-job-withdrawn-for-gc-beliefs-gribbon-sp-legal-team-is-his-solicitor?page=29&reply=150206951

Laura Laughland

DT legal

■■■■

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5384528-custody-officer-job-withdrawn-for-gc-beliefs-gribbon-sp-legal-team-is-his-solicitor?page=30&reply=150207172

Laura Laughland

GA legal

■■■■

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5384528-custody-officer-job-withdrawn-for-gc-beliefs-gribbon-sp-legal-team-is-his-solicitor?page=30&reply=150207523

Mr (mark/phil) Fearly

DT legal

■■■■

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5384528-custody-officer-job-withdrawn-for-gc-beliefs-gribbon-sp-legal-team-is-his-solicitor?page=31&reply=150207874

Mr (mark/phil) Fearly

GA legal

■■■■

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5384528-custody-officer-job-withdrawn-for-gc-beliefs-gribbon-sp-legal-team-is-his-solicitor?page=31&reply=150209453

Sarah Harvey

GA legal

■■■■

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5384528-custody-officer-job-withdrawn-for-gc-beliefs-gribbon-sp-legal-team-is-his-solicitor?page=32&reply=150210392

Sarah Harvey

DT legal

■■■■

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5384528-custody-officer-job-withdrawn-for-gc-beliefs-gribbon-sp-legal-team-is-his-solicitor?page=34&reply=150268928

Ms Ross

GA Legal

■■■■

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5384528-custody-officer-job-withdrawn-for-gc-beliefs-gribbon-sp-legal-team-is-his-solicitor?page=34&reply=150269058

MS Ross

DT legal

■■■■

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5384528-custody-officer-job-withdrawn-for-gc-beliefs-gribbon-sp-legal-team-is-his-solicitor?page=34&reply=150269508

Chris Hutton

GA Legal

■■■■

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5384528-custody-officer-job-withdrawn-for-gc-beliefs-gribbon-sp-legal-team-is-his-solicitor?page=35&reply=150271937

DT Legal

■■■■

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5384528-custody-officer-job-withdrawn-for-gc-beliefs-gribbon-sp-legal-team-is-his-solicitor?page=37&reply=150274439

John Sinclair

GA Legal

■■■■

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5384528-custody-officer-job-withdrawn-for-gc-beliefs-gribbon-sp-legal-team-is-his-solicitor?page=37&reply=150274732

John Sinclair

DT Legal

■■■■

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5384528-custody-officer-job-withdrawn-for-gc-beliefs-gribbon-sp-legal-team-is-his-solicitor?page=39&reply=150311463

Gavin Redmond

GA Legal

■■■■

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5384528-custody-officer-job-withdrawn-for-gc-beliefs-gribbon-sp-legal-team-is-his-solicitor?page=39&reply=150311647

Gavin Redmond

DT Legal

■■■■

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5384528-custody-officer-job-withdrawn-for-gc-beliefs-gribbon-sp-legal-team-is-his-solicitor?page=40&reply=150312821

Judge getting summary for DH mad MM on the evidence each side have submitted.

Page 3 | Custody officer job withdrawn for GC beliefs - Gribbon (SP legal team) is his solicitor | Mumsnet

I wonder how many more of such actions will be launched. To adapt Jimmy Doyle’s phrase, “the spectacle of this nation’s [lanyard classes] enforcing mo...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5384528-custody-officer-job-withdrawn-for-gc-beliefs-gribbon-sp-legal-team-is-his-solicitor?page=3&reply=150162243

OP posts:
AnSolas · 04/02/2026 19:00

[(Edit) to ads @ and link
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5384528-custody-officer-job-withdrawn-for-gc-beliefs-gribbon-sp-legal-team-is-his-solicitor?page=40&reply=150320204

@Tunnocksmilkchocolatemallow
]
Tunnocksmilkchocolatemallow
Today 18:01

@notAtMyAge
NotAtMyAge · Today 17:48
MM - fairly seismic change in Scotland, FWS court case, do you know about that case
GR - I'm aware of that case,
MM - has the outcome resulted in any changes between GA and SPS,
GR - we haven't been approached by the SPS on that
J - have or haven't
GR - haven't
Of course they haven't. The SPS will have to be dragged kicking and screaming to acknowledge that women matter or even exist.

It doesn’t matter if SPS have pproached them or not, they still have to follow the law.

Its very indicative of a very poor management culture.

If they know they have TIMs and TIF whom they have to manage and may themselves have TIMs and TIFs on staff and the law mandates a change or at least a formal review of SOP.

If I hire a specialist I want them to be pro-active in raising issues which may have a material change on the contract and may require a side letter.

No point in feeding a watchdog which waits to be told when to bark.
🐈‍⬛ 👀

JanesLittleGirl · 04/02/2026 19:27

Bloody hell @Another2Cats you have gone above and beyond with that collection of links. We don't deserve you.

I'llBuyThatForADollar · 04/02/2026 19:52

@Another2Cats you are a legend. Thank you

Another2Cats · 04/02/2026 20:46

JanesLittleGirl · 04/02/2026 19:27

Bloody hell @Another2Cats you have gone above and beyond with that collection of links. We don't deserve you.

That was @AnSolas , but I do agree with your sentiment.

OP posts:
JanesLittleGirl · 04/02/2026 21:11

Another2Cats · 04/02/2026 20:46

That was @AnSolas , but I do agree with your sentiment.

I stand corrected. Thank you @AnSolas

AnSolas · 04/02/2026 21:18

JanesLittleGirl · 04/02/2026 21:11

I stand corrected. Thank you @AnSolas

You are welcome.👍

I was keeping track to flick back for quotes.

Although I dont expect the case to go to 60+ threads àla Sandie Peggie I hope it makes it easier for late joiners to catch up

Hedgehogforshort · 04/02/2026 21:30

@AnSolas excellent job and much appreciated

Datun · 05/02/2026 07:58

I'm copying 2cats extraordinary post from the previous thread. I have a question.

The respondent's lawyer says you can only use the Forstater protected belief if you can express it properly, or back it up in an academic way.

My initial thought is no judge would buy that, but it appears that, yes they bloody do.

Does anyone have an opinion about whether this judge would?

---

2cats post:

"Yes, it reminds me somewhat of Miller v College of Policing back in 2021 (a case about 'non-crime hate incidents') in the Court of Appeal.

Mr Miller's beliefs were described as:
[31] Mr Miller holds what are sometimes described as gender critical beliefs which are encapsulated in his belief that trans women are men who have chosen to identify as women. Mr Miller considers that conflating sex (which he considers to be a purely biological classification) with gender, poses a risk to women’s sex-based rights

In the original case, his tweets had been described as "profane" and "unsophisticated" but he managed to obtain Professor Kathleen Stock as an expert witness and it seems like her evidence played a big part in helping him win. In the Court of Appeal case the judgment quoted part of the original judgment at [116]:

He went on to say at [252]:
“[Mr Miller’s] tweets were, for the most part, either opaque, profane, or unsophisticated. That does not rob them of the protection of Article 10(1). I am quite clear that they were expressions of opinion on a topic of current controversy, namely gender recognition. Unsubtle though they were, [Mr Miller]
expressed views which are congruent with the views of a number of respected academics who hold gender-critical views and do so for profound socio-philosophical reasons"
[emphasis added]
"...and do so for profound socio-philosophical reasons"

and not just working class reasons that aren't approved of
Without that appeal to authority of "respected academics" things might have been quite different

End of 2cats post

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/02/2026 08:21

Brilliant, thank you for thread and links.

DrSpartacularsMagnificentOctopus · 05/02/2026 10:01

It's going to be a very interesting judgement, and sounds like we won't have to wait very long.

It is truly ridiculous that holding the belief (aka very well evidenced fact) that women are women and men are men is being presented as not a proper belief. We all know that water freezes at 0°C, we're not expected to be physics professors to know that.

AnSolas · 05/02/2026 10:27

Datun · 05/02/2026 07:58

I'm copying 2cats extraordinary post from the previous thread. I have a question.

The respondent's lawyer says you can only use the Forstater protected belief if you can express it properly, or back it up in an academic way.

My initial thought is no judge would buy that, but it appears that, yes they bloody do.

Does anyone have an opinion about whether this judge would?

---

2cats post:

"Yes, it reminds me somewhat of Miller v College of Policing back in 2021 (a case about 'non-crime hate incidents') in the Court of Appeal.

Mr Miller's beliefs were described as:
[31] Mr Miller holds what are sometimes described as gender critical beliefs which are encapsulated in his belief that trans women are men who have chosen to identify as women. Mr Miller considers that conflating sex (which he considers to be a purely biological classification) with gender, poses a risk to women’s sex-based rights

In the original case, his tweets had been described as "profane" and "unsophisticated" but he managed to obtain Professor Kathleen Stock as an expert witness and it seems like her evidence played a big part in helping him win. In the Court of Appeal case the judgment quoted part of the original judgment at [116]:

He went on to say at [252]:
“[Mr Miller’s] tweets were, for the most part, either opaque, profane, or unsophisticated. That does not rob them of the protection of Article 10(1). I am quite clear that they were expressions of opinion on a topic of current controversy, namely gender recognition. Unsubtle though they were, [Mr Miller]
expressed views which are congruent with the views of a number of respected academics who hold gender-critical views and do so for profound socio-philosophical reasons"
[emphasis added]
"...and do so for profound socio-philosophical reasons"

and not just working class reasons that aren't approved of
Without that appeal to authority of "respected academics" things might have been quite different

End of 2cats post

MM has already proven that he has "lived experience" here:

MyrtleLion · 29/01/2026 09:42 09:44
MM - can you tell me more about your daughter and her circumstances
..
MM - <shrugs> What about your religious beliefs informs your GC beliefs
DT - Adam and Eve, when you're born, for millenia, what determines your sex is your observable parts, for example a penis. There are people with DSDS but that's a tiny percentage doesn't change male/female

This was aimed at DTs understanding of DEI but MM proves DT has been given proper professional training by an long established Institution of the State. And DT has formed an opinion based on the training and application of policy.

MyrtleLion · 29/01/2026 10:35
MM - doesn't the Army have some of the same features around trans
DT - there's a massive disconnect between the training command in the Army and the lads on the ground
MM - in the whole Army
DT - I can't speak for the whole Army

And he was educated enough to tell CH he has an EA10 PC and Art10 right.

So it will be interesting to see how the Judge rules on that.

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