Gorton & Denton by-election thread

[fromorbit]

This dramatic byelection to be held on Thursday 26 February 2026 is looking likely to have a confrontation over sex and gender with the Conservative's just announced candidate Charlotte Cadden being a trustee for Sex Matters. Another factor is with a large Muslim population in the area the group Muslim Vote has endorsed the Green candidate despite one of their aims to be remove teaching about LGBT issues from schools when religious parents object. Obviously in conflict with Green policy.

Candidates

• Angeliki Stogia will be the Labour candidate in this year's election. Ms Stogia moved to the UK from Greece in the 1990s and has served as a councillor in Whalley Range since 2004.
• Reform UK have selected GB News presenter Matt Goodwin as their candidate. He studied at the University of Salford and went on to have a career as a commentator and academic.
• The Liberal Democrats have selected local campaigner Jackie Pearcey as their candidate. She lives in the constituency and previously won 2,600 votes at the 2017 elections.
• The Green Party have put forward Hannah Spencer to stand for them at the by-election. She is a plumber by trade she is from Bolton and has lived in Greater Manchester all her life, and is based in Hale where she is a councilor. She doesn't believe biology is important in deciding gender.
• The Conservative Party have chosen former detective chief inspector Charlotte Cadden as their candidate. She served for 30 years in GMP and London's Met.
• The Re-join EU Party have announced that Joseph O'Meachair will be their candidate. He is a member of the party's executive committee and lives in the North West.

Sebastian Moore (Social Democratic Party)
The Social Democratic Party announced on Friday 30 January that the current SDP North West Chair Sebastian Moore will be running as their candidate in the by-election.

Nicholas Brendan Buckley Advance UK

He is a British charity worker and political figure who previously represented Reform UK.

Dan Clarke is the Libertarian Party candidate

Sir Oink A-Lot
Sir Oink A-Lot is The Official Monster Raving Loony Party candidate

https://whocanivotefor.co.uk/elections/parl.gorton-and-denton.by.2026-02-26/gorton-and-denton/

The just announced Conservative candidate has serious form:
Former detective chief inspector Charlotte Cadden is a lesbian served for 30 years as a Police Officer, both for Greater Manchester Police and the Metropolitan Police - Charlotte is a trustee of the charity Sex Matters, a member of the LGB Alliance Business Forum. She coordinates the Women’s Rights Network in Greater Manchester, In 2023, she set up the national Police SEEN.

Galloway's Worker's Party have now decided not to stand. They may have attracted a bunch of Muslim votes which will now go elsewhere.

Any hustings are going to be rather interesting.

In my experience the catholic community still does ( although not so starkly or stringently as the Glasgow sectarian divide).. There now seems to be more of a north/south divide in the city, with the south of the city being predominantly LFC supporting. People tend to forget the Welsh, and Scottish, influences that have shaped the city's culture. Liverpool is the only city outside of Wales ever to have hosted a national Eisteddfod ( four times).

Yep. Everton was traditionally the Irish, and Catholic club. The club still maintains strong roots with Irish grassroots football.

I don’t think it’s particularly unusual for people with a strong regional identity to feel ambivalent about national identity, or prioritising their ‘local’ identity. That doesn’t mean they hate their country. And it’s not peculiar to England/Britain. France has been mentioned, but it’s also evident in Germany and Italy.

In relation to the Irish. It’s unsurprising that when a minority community is discriminated against, as the Irish in Britain have been, that they lean into their non-British/English identity. We also see it in other communities now. Of course, Tommy Ten Names was very much part of that Irish diaspora, which has a strong presence in Luton. He’s even got the Irish passport I believe. Make of that what you will.

UTFT

This happens everywhere. I can't be the only person to have heard "English by birth: Yorkshire by the grace of God".

Although I do like "there are two types of people in the world: Scousers and people who wish they were Scousers".

Ah, but when it happens in other places no one is trying to prove some kind of link between an area being left wing and them hating their country. Or whatever the point was supposed to be.

Yep, I think that you've got it nailed.

Yes I realised what you meant. I just thought there's a third
That episode with the teacher was very bad. I'm not sure banning burkhas is an essential part of the solution, or any part of it. Maybe an analysis of the actions of patriarchy within extreme Muslim culture would be a start. I can see someone like Suellas experience' being very different from mine. She's a Buddhist I understand. So I guess like us all she's a product of her own unique experiences.
The building of understanding is usually useful.

Labour accused of bribing voters with food at by-election event
https://www.independent.co.uk/bulletin/news/labour-bribe-gorton-denton-police-b2922318.html

I wasn't trying to prove any point, if it was my original post you are referring to here? But as you must know ( you say you are from and live in Liverpool) - there is a strong culture in the city ( the one which tends to identify itself as 'Scouse') which seems to believe/feel that everyone is a socialist, "hates the Tories" etc, thinks people on the Wirral are snobs, and that this ties in with the self mythologising ( "more Irish than English" etc) tendencies that are widely in circulation.

As i say I have posted on a city forum for about 15 years...mostly male and very much 'group think' when it comes to the idea that Liverpool is an island unto itself that has been rejected and oppressed by the London establishment.

Many working class northern communities probably feel likewise, but nowhere does heroic, romantic, self mythologising quite as much as 'Scousers'.

Pretty sure they nicked that from the Scotch!

I’m perfectly aware of a tendency toward Scouse exceptionalism. As has been mentioned previously it’s not a unique phenomenon. Lots of areas think they’re special.

Given you brought up the slogan directly in response to my post regarding the myth that everyone on the left was anti-English (re the Orwell quote), I’m not entirely sure what point you were making by highlighting it.

Does every post have to be making a point ? I'm not sure about you, but personally I often post in a coversational and spontaneous way. I'm not always trying to have a go at someone or argue about something. You seem quite rattled?

Not at all rattled. It was your contention that to be left wing “You have to be [at least outwardly] anti British and certainly anti English.” When you popped the slogan in directly after that comment, I’d assumed it was in some way related. Clearly I was mistaken. You are in fact engaged in some kind of free jazz mode of posting. Just shooting the breeze.

I think it would be hard to reject the fact that many on the Left are indeed not only very down on Britain and the West/America ( an imperialist, colonialist endeavour 'sort of thing') in general, but also not very supportive of any kind of nationalist identity (certainly when it comes to England). It seems to be fine to be a Scottish nationalist or an Irish nationalist, but not an English one.

Just came across this study, which was conducted before 'Reform' came into being ( conducted just after the decline of UKIP) into 'Englishness and the Labour party'. Makes some interesting point and observations.

By Professor Rt Hon John Denham Professor of English Identity and Politics University of Winchester
Southern Policy Centre

https://ora.ox.ac.uk/objects/uuid:abe848f8-0519-48fb-b7c0-0fcff01bdf2f/files/r6q182k334

Well...

Its hard to talk about Englishness when living in England because it's a bit like a fish trying to describe what water is. Or me trying to talk about how I "identify" as a woman. I just... Am. Wales and Scotland tend to define their Welsh Ness/Scottishness against Englishness. I don't think that means (as some have suggested) that identity always comes from oppression/opposition to something else. I think you can have a strong cultural identity that stand alone. But it's easier to talk about by comparing it to other identities.

When people do discuss "Englishness" it's usually in opposition to Westminster (technically also England) or the EU. Or, it's in a class context. The "real English" working class who are proud to be English compared to the upper classes. But then, when talking about Enlgishness you find yourself talking about what makes someone working class or not from London. So it can still come across quite negative because it's what's wrong with the London intelligentsia, with English middle classes etc.

When I'm not in England, I feel very English. I was once walking behind some people in a foreign country and I thought "I bet those people are English" and then they started talking and they were! It wasn't even that they looked British. I just knew they were English.

I do think there's a reticence to excessive displays of pride which are associated with being English. And therefore the most English way to be English is not to be proud of being English. Even when people are, it's with an element of embarrassment or irony. That's not new (Gilbert and Sullivan). Even Kipling who was the most thumping poet we had alludes to it. It probably is an integral part of English identity. I do think it goes to far, but I also think something's get lost in translation. There's a really unpleasant quite virulent anti-Britishness/anti-English push coming from America at the moment. I think it's dismissed as banter like we always had but I don't think it is and because of the dominance of American media it's a worry. But Americas weird attitude towards "the Brits".is a whole.other topic.

In short we are a complicated people.

I meant to add, the pint about "people being very down on the West/England/imperialism in general" is complicated because this is a common complaint on the right of America as well. That "Western" achievements are constantly denigrated. Which sort of fits with the likes of Douglas Murray's argument that the good things the British Empire did are ignored. But it's always a bit awkward because the people in America he talks to a lot are "proud Americans" and part of that is being proud of the revolutionary war, and beating the dastardly British Empire. A lot of media critique of the British empire comes from the US. So in (more culturally right) American terms the "West" and manifest destiny are good, but the Brits were always a bit sneaky. So they make very odd bedfellows. To get along the "Brits" like Douglas Murray have to accept that the English are very much secondary to Americans in valour etc which they do by being self deprecating while complaining that the left always do Britain/the English down.

I actually like Douglass Murray despite all this. He's very earnest. But even he can't do tubthumping national pride the way the Yanks can. Which I'm glad about.

The Scots may define their identity largely against England, and if you read about the clearances who can blame them, but the Welsh define their identify by Rugby, singing and used to be a bit of religion in the mix (chapel not church) although that has largely disappeared. There's certainly an anti-English element but that's partly working class Welsh against English bosses.

Dare to suggest that the British Empire might occasionally have had a benefit or even that it was less destructive than the other empires and you'll be told you are racist. Mention that Portugal, France, Spain and the Netherlands were involved in the slave trade and that Britain paid to money to France, Spain and some African nations trying to stop slavery and that makes you racist too. www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Britains-Role-Ending-Slavery-Worldwide/

There's a certain type of American who are massive Anglophiles, and it's not predictable by political allegiance. The whole reason for the Stateside careers of Douglas Murray, or on the other side of the fence John Oliver, is Americans feeling that their talking points sound more convincing if they're delivered in an English accent.

I wonder if this is connected to all those American movies with English villains. Or that class thing you get in prisons where working class prisoners recruit middle class prisoners to negotiate on their behalf.

But I suspect the Americans Douglas meets are basically upscale Anglophiles. I don't think he spends much time in the company of stereotypical Chicago Man, whose ancestry is 1/2 German, 1/4 Italian and 1/4 Serbian, and swears he's totally Irish every 17th March.

The English who despise England are definitely a thing, though not as unique as Orwell might have thought. There's a definite constituency in Ireland that despises everything distinctively Irish, and it is to be found living in the nicer parts of south Dublin and working in the government, media, academia and quangocracy.

Cofiwch Dryweryn

I agree with you that the Welsh sense of identity/cultural pride can exist completely independently to England. So can Scottishness. It's more if you want to talk about it you need to have another country to compare to/match up against. So Welsh rugby has to be played against other countries and there's rivalry between England and Wales. You mentioned chapel as being distinct from church. Because Chapel is distinctly Welsh but to draw attention to that you need to compare it to English (or other countries) church.

Nationalism is different because that only makes sense of there is some sort of opposition/something to match against. So Scottish/Welsh nationalism is about independence or at least greater autonomy. That has to be independance from something..specifically the UK. English nationalism isn't really about independence from Wales or Scotland or the UK. It's either about independence from the EU. Or it's about opposing something within England- either the educated elite who "despise England" or cultural change or (at the ethno nationalist fringes) "non-English" groups living in England. I have more patience for some of those arguments than others. But when one is talking about an internal enemy you find yourself in the odd position of doing your own country down while complaining about other people doing your country down.

I agree about the good the UK did with the slave trade. To be fair it is taught in schools at GCSE level. But that's something that doesn't cross across the Atlantic very well (where a lot of the we need more pride types are looking) because the American right (Vance etc) are keen to talk less about the American participation in the slave trade. Not big up how the British opposed it decades before the Americans did and about how a large number of abolitionists in the UK, including working class mill workers, opposed the American slave industry and supported the Civil War through sanctions etc.

I don't think the people wanting to take pride in Britain or England are in the wrong at all. But the way it's structured means it's always presented as needing more.positivity but always ends up very negative. If you try to outline positive things, those same people will.say "that isn't relevant to ordinary people" but also can't outline an alternative that is (other than things everyone in England likes like football).

Ok, so what is there to like about England or about Ireland? And it has to be a positive thing that is completely independent/non relational to the types that "despise" Englishness or Irishness. Because you talk in a lot more detail about those people than you do about what is good in England or Ireland. Which is sort of my point in a roundabout way...

I agree about the movies and (some) Americans thinking English accents sound more intelligent.

To return to Gorton and Denton for a moment, Guido have had a look at the Advance UK candidate's substack, and... he has some spicy takes.

Maybe he should team up with Zack Polanski rather than an old fuddy duddy like Ben Habib.
Advance UK's Gorton & Denton Candidate: 'Women Use Their Bodies and Sexuality to Abuse Men' – Guido Fawkes

Dear lord why can't anyone be normal?

I remember him on triggernometry a few years ago. Odd duck. I think he ran for mayor somewhere, maybe Manchester.

Hes one of those people who hang round politics for a long time, but never seems to get far. Probably because of pointless spicy takes

Little Owen is a green now, and has been annoying voters in Gorton

https://nitter.net/shornKOOMINS/status/2023766446111682990#m