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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Human Rights are only for real humans, not women. Discuss.

17 replies

logiccalls · 31/01/2026 15:26

This morning Radio 4 featured 2 relevant items:
One on loneliness, with the shrink explaining "men - only spaces are sacred" (!) And, that women cannot be lonely, because somehow by being female they must all be assumed to be "literally, falling into the arms of friends"
Assorted handmaidens joined in, kindly explaining that menz's feelz are very special and important.

Another, on Starmer in China, had BBC
a) declaring a triumph because some male politicians had been forgiven for saying nasty things about China,
b) declaring a disaster that another man had not,
c) and declaring a triumph that Keir had mentioned the Chinese Great Sin, of being nasty to Chinese Muslims.
Like the Great Sin commited by JKRowling, this is assumed to need no explanation.

An admittedly perfunctory look into the past, both distant and recent, and the present, seems to indicate that China treats or has treated vast numbers of citizens in ways which could be questioned. (The one child policy was enforced rigidly and suddenly, but the results gave China the future we now see, and gave Chinese women the power they now have, over their own lives and the male dominance or bullying they are willing to tolerate, i.e. none)

But being Muslim appears to have gained special exemption at one stage, so the 'community' was permitted to carry on pretty much whatever an Ayatolah or Taliban regime would find satisfactory. Unlimited power of males in how they treat 'their' women and children, and, as a result, unlimited churning out of children. Is that a treat for women and children? And are they not fully human?

Elsewhere, there is discussion on the NHS instructing health visitors to praise cousin marriage, (two thirds of Pakistani weddings involve first cousins) although it leads to large families often of non-verbal, non- functioning children who will need round the clock care for life, and repeated kidney transplants.

There has been a brief mention that although the general public, and both Houses of Parliament, would be in favour of a ban on cousin marriage, the Labour party has refused to consider it, for fear of upsetting .....

,,,,,,,,,Well, whom? Is it male- only 'Community leaders', able to deliver block (postal) Labour votes, because community leaders instruct male-only heads of households, who instruct/ discipline the less- than- human females and children they 'own'? But slavery is banned, isn't it?

OP posts:
persephonia · 01/02/2026 14:10

LilyCanna · 01/02/2026 13:21

Your post is confusing but I think you seem to be ridiculing concerns about the appalling treatment of Uyghur Muslims in China including forced labour, because you personally dislike Islam.
https://www.ushmm.org/genocide-prevention/countries/china/chinese-persecution-of-the-uyghurs

It seems to be an attempt to generate outrage at men being privileged and then force team that into outrage at Muslims being privileged. It's not that likely to work because

  1. Those two things (a radio four item about loneliness and criticism of China's treatment of the Uighurs) aren't really the same at all. And trying to draw a link between them inevitably leads to something quite incomprehensible
  1. Life isnt always zero sum. I care a lot about women's issues. A radio programme explicitly looking at the problems men face regarding loneliness doesn't automatically threaten women's rights/wellbeing. It might of it was explicitly blaming women or saying women needed to be forced to be men's girlfriends or something. I don't like the implication that it's always easy for women. I think it's a common misconception lonely men have. So would probably push back on that if someone said it to me. But that doesn't mean I'm going to get outraged at an entire segment which is well intentioned and in its entirety helpful. It feels like an attempt by someone who has a negative view of feminism/women's rights to get feminists on side by hitting what they think feminists care about.
oldtiredcyclist · 01/02/2026 14:54

LilyCanna · 01/02/2026 13:21

Your post is confusing but I think you seem to be ridiculing concerns about the appalling treatment of Uyghur Muslims in China including forced labour, because you personally dislike Islam.
https://www.ushmm.org/genocide-prevention/countries/china/chinese-persecution-of-the-uyghurs

Have you heard of the Uighur terrorists who are allied to Islamic State in Syria, under the Turkistan Islamic Party. They have carried out terrorist attacks in Syria, Iraq, Iran and Afghanista.

https://icct.nl/publication/uighur-foreign-fighters-underexamined-jihadist-challenge

Uighur Foreign Fighters: An Underexamined Jihadist Challenge

Uighurs, specifically individuals of Turkic decent from China’s northwest province of Xinjiang, have become a noticeable part of the constellation of globally active jihadist terror groups. Uighur jihadists first came to the world’s attention when the...

https://icct.nl/publication/uighur-foreign-fighters-underexamined-jihadist-challenge

Hoardasurass · 01/02/2026 15:12

Maybe get mnhq to remove the patronising "discus" from your title and separate your points into cogent groups or questions as its a confusing mess and your "discus" will put peoples back up

TempestTost · 01/02/2026 15:18

Yeah, the OP doesn't seem very coherent to me either.

Grammarnut · 02/02/2026 16:32

oldtiredcyclist · 01/02/2026 14:54

Have you heard of the Uighur terrorists who are allied to Islamic State in Syria, under the Turkistan Islamic Party. They have carried out terrorist attacks in Syria, Iraq, Iran and Afghanista.

https://icct.nl/publication/uighur-foreign-fighters-underexamined-jihadist-challenge

That doesn't excuse China's behaviour, which has included rape.

logiccalls · 02/02/2026 16:43

Just discovered that Libby Purves has expressed it better, (naturally, as a professional writer!). It is in The Times, today. (Can't link)

Also today, Womens Hour has another depressing feature along the same lines, of what ought to be jaw-dropping contempt for women, but was/is, considered acceptable. Is it possible males (i.e. real humans) would be targetted by policemen pretending to have a years long, loving relationship and partnership,,and having sex with them on that understanding, all while being married with families elsewhere, and using fake identities, and all on state orders, in hope of discovering what Green activists were planning?

(Mind, there was a mention that the Government has now declared no limit to what criminality police can carry out, with exemption, apparently, according to the programme, it would include murder. )

OP posts:
POWNewcastleEastWallsend · 03/02/2026 10:14

logiccalls Live up to your name and, at the very least, give us the title of the article you are referring to if you want anyone to pay any attention to it.

Far from being an invitation to "Discuss", your musings come over like jottings in a private notebook rather than an attempt to stimulate discussion on a public forum

🤷‍♀️

logiccalls · 03/02/2026 16:24

POWNewcastleEastWallsend · 03/02/2026 10:14

logiccalls Live up to your name and, at the very least, give us the title of the article you are referring to if you want anyone to pay any attention to it.

Far from being an invitation to "Discuss", your musings come over like jottings in a private notebook rather than an attempt to stimulate discussion on a public forum

🤷‍♀️

2nd Feb Light a candle in defiance of women haters. Libby Purves. Times. Beautifully written. Comments describe her as brave.

OP posts:
logiccalls · 03/02/2026 22:38

Libby Purves in yesterday's Times was worth reading
And, so is Helen Rumbelow in today's Times:
Feb 03. 'I studied the latest Epstein files. As a woman, this is what I felt.'

Readers of this page on Mumsnet would not be as shaken as were the author, and many of the readers making comments. But it is another well written article joining the dots about the sub- human status of women.

Women think men and women are equal. Many or most men don't.

OP posts:
BiologicalRobot · 03/02/2026 22:50

Links please. Preferably ones that have share tokens if behind a wall. Ta very much.

logiccalls · 03/02/2026 23:08

BiologicalRobot · 03/02/2026 22:50

Links please. Preferably ones that have share tokens if behind a wall. Ta very much.

Sorry can't do it. There is, as you say, a paywall. Trying to arrange a way.

OP posts:
POWNewcastleEastWallsend · 07/02/2026 01:46

logiccalls · 03/02/2026 16:24

2nd Feb Light a candle in defiance of women haters. Libby Purves. Times. Beautifully written. Comments describe her as brave.

"Light a candle in defiance of women haters"
https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/light-a-candle-in-defiance-of-women-haters-b7vwbhbcd

For no paywall, paste that URL into the Search box on https://archive.today

Search archive.today for the other URLs you are recommending too in case they have been archived.

The other place to look is https://web.archive.org/

Light a candle in defiance of women-haters

On Candlemas Day, we should celebrate womanhood and face down contempt, whether from trans ideology or Taliban

https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/light-a-candle-in-defiance-of-women-haters-b7vwbhbcd

logiccalls · 07/02/2026 14:22

POWNewcastleEastWallsend · 07/02/2026 01:46

"Light a candle in defiance of women haters"
https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/light-a-candle-in-defiance-of-women-haters-b7vwbhbcd

For no paywall, paste that URL into the Search box on https://archive.today

Search archive.today for the other URLs you are recommending too in case they have been archived.

The other place to look is https://web.archive.org/

Thank you very much.

The habitual regarding of women as not fully human seems obvious everywhere, For example, years ago people who were non smokers felt obliged, as good hosts, to provide plenty of ashtrays, for the use of guests.

In exactly the same way, for rich powerful elite men, being a good host to a bunch of fellow men required provision of plenty of young female bodies, for the use of guests. Hence, Prince Andrew, and even the gay Peter Mandleson, were at ease in proximity of whatever 'ashtrays' the house-party host had supplied.

Long ago, there was a case just like the Epstein one, involving a couple of 'young female ashtrays' called Christine Keeler and Mandy Rice Davis, who had been politely provided, for use of guests, at a country house retreat. The guests included politicians, and the 'ashtrays' became famous, in something called the Profumo affair. After many decades, and many lifelong efforts of feminists, and despite the arrival of purported sex equality, nothing has changed:. Andrew Tate would approve of the 'female- ashtrays' provision.

Not all men in power would be as unquestioningly comfortable with provision of children, or of young males, as 'ashtrays', merely as an unremarkable part of polite house-party hosting. Though there are clearly groups with influence in Parliament, who believe that, especially for juvenile females, "it's all right, provided they're white".

OP posts:
POWNewcastleEastWallsend · 07/02/2026 20:31

Funnily enough, I was talking to a friend last night and we felt that the Epstein-Mandelson scandal was the biggest sex scandal with lashings of politics on the side since Christine Keeler, Mandy Rice Davis and Profumo.

There there is "Starmer and the Ukrainian Arsonist Twinks" like waiting for the other shoe to drop . . .

persephonia · 07/02/2026 20:51

POWNewcastleEastWallsend · 07/02/2026 20:31

Funnily enough, I was talking to a friend last night and we felt that the Epstein-Mandelson scandal was the biggest sex scandal with lashings of politics on the side since Christine Keeler, Mandy Rice Davis and Profumo.

There there is "Starmer and the Ukrainian Arsonist Twinks" like waiting for the other shoe to drop . . .

Its not a sex scandal like the Profumo affair though. Those were (theoretically) consenting adult woman (and actually seen as guilty parties. There's a whole discussion about how they were viewed and treated. Keeler had a terrible life but it wasn't seen as a sexual exploitation issue at the time). This is the repeated rape, torture and sexual trafficking of vulnerable children (and young adult women) for the enjoyment of large numbers of powerful men. And those same victims being discussed like meat. Along with references to murder in the files which may or may not be true. Children were told their families would be killed.

It's not a "naughty" scandal like eg a Peer of the Realm being caught with his trousers down with a dominatrix. It's actually evil. And yes, also there is a political corruption element too which is similar to Profumo. It's more like the Marc Dutroux (Belgium case)

POWNewcastleEastWallsend · 08/02/2026 12:58

It is undeniable that everything about the Epstein case is on a larger, more depraved, scale than the Profumo Affair and more far-reaching, global rather than national. Not just the sexual exploitation and trafficking but also global financial manipulation, governmental and corporate corruption. I do not have any difficulty agreeing with you on that because I was not suggesting that they are the same.

What I said was, "the Epstein-Mandelson scandal (is) the biggest sex scandal with lashings of politics on the side since Christine Keeler, Mandy Rice Davis and Profumo."

I could understand if your point was that there have been bigger "sex scandals with lashings of politics on the side since Christine Keeler, Mandy Rice Davis and Profumo."

The Grooming Gangs should be in there but that scandal has not broken fully yet IMHO.

As an aside, I don't think you are entirely accurate in the way you have summarised the Profumo Affair.

The "sex scandal" part was much bigger than Profumo's dalliance with Christine Keeler: that was a relatively minor, if titillating, aspect of the political scandal.

A large part of the "sex scandal" aspect was Steven Ward's role and trial vis a vis the teenage girls who he recruited - and who he referred to as "alley cats".

Ward played a low-rent, "Epstein-socialite" role in the scandal, introducing powerful men to each other and to "barely legal" girls. Accounts vary but Christine Keeler and Mandy Rice-Davies were either 16 or 17 when Ward started introducing them to his circle of "aristos".

I suppose a comparison of sorts could be made there: Steven Ward died on the last day of his trial, killing himself before he was found guilty; Epstein killed himself while in custody awaiting trial.

However, as I have said already, I was not making a detailed comparison of the facts of these cases. I was making a point about their impact in the UK.

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