Birthing people

[HaddockDiem]

Just listened to Woman’s Hour and feel offended by what I’ve heard. My usual take is ‘identify as what you want and I’ll go along with you’ whilst finding the entire trans debate bewildering. However the term ‘birthing people’ has touched a nerve with me.
trying to articulate why it has so offended me - I think it’s the number of women who die in childbirth, the number of women damaged and who have health problems related to this ( a friend with preeclampsia died of kidney failure )… and I just feel outraged!
please help me make sense of why this is so triggering

French Gyn Doc got suspended or retrained (?) for pointing out 》on SM 《 he was a "Female body with Organs" Doc after a "Male body with (possible modified) Organs" tried to book an appointment was refused and then took to SM to complain.

"Birthing people" is a ridiculous phrase, "women and birthing people" even more so. Who really classes themselves as a "birthing person"? It's an entirely artificial term that was invented purely to avoid having to say "woman".

Of course they could say "women and trans men", and the reason they don't is because you now have women who think of themselves as non-binary, and probably the phrase "women, trans men and non-binary people who are actually biologically female" is too much of a mouthful.

Seriously, though. What nonsense.

They'd probably use the excuse that 'birthing people ' could refer to girls not old enough to be called women. Well say females then
Ha ha as if that would happen

I recently saw a draft maternity guideline (on what exactly is a bit too outing) for my local trust. Throughout the work it referenced women, mothers, and she. At the top was a note along the lines of “insert usual blurb about not all birthing people identifying as women”. Not all senior midwives are captured, thank goodness. And not one person on the email chain openly challenged that terribly dismissive triggering comment.

It was this case, which we talked about on here. The doctor was being honest, saying "I have no skills to treat men, even if they have shaved their beards and come to tell my secretary that they have become women".

https://www.euronews.com/2023/09/15/a-cavity-is-not-a-vagina-trans-woman-refused-healthcare-in-france

I understand that. Is it not the same case for other male specific conditions e.g. testicular cancer, problems with the penis i.e. that poem demonstrates all that is wrong, but the language isn't just used in prostate cancer comms is it?
That's what I meant.

The thread about the French doctor is here if anyone wants to read it:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5264272-french-gynaecologist-suspended-for-refusing-to-treat-a-tw?page=1

The purpose of the phrase is to seperate the act of giving birth from being a woman so we don't offend the male 'women' who can't give birth. So instead of associating giving birth with womanhood we are supposed to associate it with a group of 'people' who's shared characteristics is only that of giving birth. Transmen are wheeled out as the excuse for doing this. However I'm very doubtful that we'd see such changes merely for the benefit of a tiny percentage of women who are largely forgotten, even by their own community, unless they can be of use to TIM.

I don't think teawamutu was necessarily linking the poem to her comment on prostate cancer.

Both are examples of language capture.

Have the TRAs come after the word “mother” in the same way they have come for words to do with pregnancy and birth?

Yes. I had to check this, and it's correct.

I think the problem is how high up the chain a True Believer of Be Kind or TRA is.

If you are low or exposed to be bullied out its so much harder to pus a target on your job and also your career😕

There was an attempt to remove 'mother' from birth certificates, I think the assumption being that a birth certificate is not an official record of a birth but an affirmation of identity.

I always imagine a dystopian future when I hear 'birthing bodies', I dread to think what will come. It's so offensive to women and mothers.

On an employer level the TM is the bigger risk

US corporates go mad when they realise women have rights to Maternity pay and leave.
Paternity is OMG 💥
In the US holidays (even 1 day) and Healthcare are massive reasons to move job.

As an employer you can calculate 1 day leave but for Healthcare it can end up Employee specific.
Ee1 has heart condition and HC policy cost rockets.

So a woman is 2 babies : women only healthcare and baby leave and cover role plus Paternity "Mothers with baby" leave.

Ripping the woman from the baby supports to an equal field for women and men is removing the UK/EU employers legal obligation to recognise the "social contribution" women make by creating the next generation of workers

Freddie and her living like a man birthing a baby court case

Isn't "birthing people" just another name for midwives?
Women "give birth" aided by a midwife in the "birthing process"

I hate the term 'birthing person' because it reduces me to existing only to give birth. When I see midwives etc. I'm a woman - a whole person who has preferences and opinions on how I'm supported through my pregnancy and birth. In a system that already struggles to listen to and respect women, we don't need to change language to encourage taking autonomy from them!

I was appalled by this today and for the everyone women. It was derogatory

https://birthrights.org.uk/ wad this the charity?

🤬🤬🤬

It’s just another pathetic attempt at mangling language so that men pretending to be women can try and steal the words that describe us.

I think they think it’s clever and subtle. It’s just offensive and glaringly obvious.

"'Birthing people' clearly refers to the mothers"

No it doesn't "clearly" refer to mothers at all, any more than "birthing partners" clearly refers to the people you have listed.

Why did you feel the need to define "birthing partners" and list who it might apply to, other than to ensure that everyone understood who you are talking about? 🤷‍♀️

(Reading this back, I think I might be coming over as preachy and/or grumpy - apologies if so. Just rather rushed!)

There is the same need to explain who "birthing people" are because it is not necessarily obvious from context that the term is intended to refer to mothers.

"Birthing people" could just as easily be interpreted as either a colloquial term or "professional" jargon that is intended to encompass just about everyone closely involved in the birthing process apart from the mother.

IMHO the only thing that is clear is that close to 100% of mothers and expectant mothers understand the same thing by the word "mother".

Trans ideology and the surrogacy industry go hand-in-hand, shoe-horning misogynistic terminology into language, globally dehumanising women and commodifying reproductive processes.

Who is the "mother" in the surrogacy industry? Not the woman who is the "birthing person". Not the woman who is the "gestational carrier".

Prior to this linguistic flipperoo a surrogate mother was always the woman (usually a woman) who substituted for the actual mother in caring for and raising a child long-term. Often the child's aunt, grandmother, other female relative or female friend in informal "fostering" or "adoption" arrangements.

This meaning still exists, but now only in relation to animals, as this thread illustrates:

https://x.com/HairyLeggdHarpy/status/1378661064339042306

Threadreader:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1378661064339042306.html

(Both of the above have been archived if they should disappear - new readers, check the usual places.)

So much more to say on this if I only had time.

I’m not as articulate as most of the women on here so my explanation might not make sense.

When I read/hear terms like ‘birthing people’ ‘people who menstruate’ ‘chest feeding’ ‘woman/women with a penis’ it goes against everything I/We know to be biological fact.

Only women can be pregnant and give birth and only men have a penis.

It’s as absurd as if someone decided to rename the sun as the moon and vice versa.

Also, it’s not in any way offensive to say only women have a cervix or only men have a prostate, but knowing we might be called transphobic for saying so makes it a bit sinister.

I came here to share that too. The absolute nadir of so called “inclusive” language.