Cambridge student barred from pub over views on gender

[junipery]

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/cambridge-student-banned-pub-transgender-mb5w3fs8q?gaa_at=eafs&gaa_n=AWEtsqeHPQktlmmTuRearWHlXoMg7dh75qqdhU-8NQQOr89dZYfzcySumdRMR79MRsw%3D&gaa_ts=697772ea&gaa_sig=P6Zz80dv7HXan5-cMOqBQdqexGQPP710GBr5H7R0NjqhdXHjOETcAFpmuRsasbaHlrOsbRPNwQ50lFqFckZneg%3D%3D

Archive link here - https://archive.ph/sGKls

I know there are have been a few similar issues with pubs but I can’t remember the outcomes of the top of my head. Can anyone remind me?

In today's climate Im surprises pubs can afford to ban customers for having perfect legal opinions.

They seem to be closing at a rate of knots thanks to Rachel Reeves and her tax hikes

I'm totally in awe of these young women. There's very little transactivists could do to me but I'm still a great big cowardy custard about falling out with lefty friends. Yet here they are, a fraction of my age and putting friendships, education and quite possibly career options on the line. 👏

Threa is also living her philosophy. A subject that is often only experienced in the most abstract terms is actually core to her daily existence, the choices she's making, the others make about her.
For someone like her who's life is based around philosophy and philosophical concepts, right now her whole life is predicated on thinking and decision making.
Must be scary, and bracing, at the same time.
Like learning how to rock climb out of a book, and then being pushed off a very high ledge.

How did they know about her views, were they eavesdropping on her conversations? That's dodgy in itself if so.

She is co-head of a new actually-women-only student society at Cambridge Uni and has been interviewed in the press. Her views are public knowledge. Outrageous behaviour by the pub nonetheless.

They genuinely refused to serve her because someone recognized her? Not even that she was arguing loudly her views, holding a meeting? Just simply for being recognized?
Amazing isn't it. If I ran a pub and WillowBooby walked in, no way would I bar him, even if he engaged me in some drivel about far right TERFs.
This is enraging.

If I ran a pub and WillowBooby walked in, no way would I bar him, even if he engaged me in some drivel about far right TERFs.

I would positively relish the opportunity to pick his arguments apart to his face

IW has already commented with the a ‘landlord can kick anyone out for no reason’ scenario - so I guess IW wouldn’t mind being kicked out for being trans?

Ah, Thea is not being kicked out for being cis (sorry about that word, let's say "non trans" lol), but for her views on trans.

On previous threads about instances like this, quite a few have commented that a pub landlord/lady has the absolute right to say who they will serve and who they will not.

Not for an unlawfully discriminatory reason. You cannot bar someone from a pub because of their colour, for example.

Ok for pubs to ban Starmer and other Labour politicians?

I don’t know where political belief fits in. You can be barred for supporting the wrong football team, and I suppose you can be barred just for being a famous politician.

...and can the evangelical Christian cake maker refuse the custom of the gay couple wanting a wedding cake made?

Can’t remember which way that case went but very pleased to see Thea is challenging this. I hope she gets her £2.5k and that news gets round so pubs learn not to bar conspicuously law abiding women.

It’s just as illegal to discriminate against someone on the grounds of their legally protected beliefs as it is to do so on the ground of gender reassignment.

Both are protected characteristics in the EA.

HTH.

Sure, I'm just surmising the thinking for those unaware of the law here.

You’re very much misrepresenting that case. The baker didn’t refuse the custom of the gay couple: he was happy to bake them a cake, but not to decorate it with a slogan that went against his beliefs.

The law found that he couldn’t be compelled to say something (or in this case, write something) that he felt very strongly about not supporting.

Just like you couldn’t be compelled to decorate a cake for a customer with the slogan “trans women are men”.

I’m sure you appreciate the clarification - you wouldn’t want to be spreading misinformation, after all.

that would be misunderstanding the law as much as IW does.

You can be kicked out at the landlord's discretion for, say, being someone who attracts trouble (prob need evidence) but simply "being trans" is a protected characteristic and so no you can't.

if you get kicked out of a West Ham pub (and it will be clear that it is for WH supporters) because you turn up with Spurs regalia, for sure they can bar you because it is likely to lead to immense trouble.

You can't kick out a transwoman for walking into a WH pub wearing Spurs regalia because they are trans though. Just for the likely to cause trouble because of Spurs.

So, what if the landlord has a lot of young trans patrons, knows that they'll recognize Thea, and bars her/insists she leaves, before likely trouble kicks off?
Is it ok for an Arsenal pub to prevent access to a very well recognized Spurs supporter?
Because this publicans defense might be they don't want trouble kicking off if Thea spotted by trans hotheads always in his gaff.

Obviously my devil's advocate post was a little too subtle, lol.
This is like saying the publican can't bar Thea for her protected views (evangelical cake maker can't refuse custom of gays full stop), but she can't insist on him agreeing with her GC views or run publicity in the pub to this effect (just as said cake maker can't be forced to write "gay marriage is swell")?

you'd have to hope that a court would side with Thea. But if there was a time, for eg, when she went in, the trans people kicked off and said it was because she was there? I'd wager he would be able to do that. Unless Thea could show that she and her fellow GC friends had been going there at the same time as the trans patrons for years and years with no problems.

I would guess the LL would get away with that, unfortunately.

ETA. It is a LONG time since i worked in a pub, but we had 2 people try to get us to rescind a ban by getting lawyers involved. We were very clearly, say, a City pub with banners inside, scarves, photos of players etc etc. Fairly close to the ground On derby day a, say, United (to be clear: it was not in Manchester but a city with 2 teams) fan came in singing their terrace songs, wearing scarf, hat and shirt etc and generally going up to locals and getting in their faces. And one of the city fans finally threw a punch.

So the city and the united fan were kicked out - the city fan could come back after that day, but the united fan was banned. He found that unfair, but he provoked and provoked. The ban stood because the LL couldn't guarantee his presence wouldn't lead to a fight (in a well established City pub)

The second was a chap who was deffo a few french fries short of a happy meal, who used to hassle our weekly blue-grass band - who all worked for a (then) well-known eco charity. It was clear, they had 2 banners and sang songs about saving the earth and how bad nuclear power is. And this guy used to just shout abuse at them and nuclear is great and all that. Banned. Lawyered up, and his own lawyer told him to knock it on the head.

I think a LL trying to "keep the peace" - no matter how spurious the grounds - may win if there is evidence of previous trouble or definite threats? IANAL

Because this publicans defense might be they don't want trouble kicking off if Thea spotted by trans hotheads always in his gaff.

Recognizing that we're using hypotheticals to understand the law better, the newspaper article suggested the problem was that her presence was making the staff uncomfortable, not the other customers.

"My employees will kick off if that person is in here" won't play.

It's always best to pander to the violent males objecting to a woman being in the same room as them because they don't like what she thinks

Ok, but doesn't the same apply...an Arsenal pub staffed by Gunners, and a recognisable Spurs fan walks in. If the publican feels, or argues that, the bar staff would be unhappy, is he or she within their rights to turn said Spurs fan away?
Aren't some London businesses turning Jews away to prevent Omnicausers inside from taking offence, and I'm sure this has included restaurant staff as well as diners.