Darlington nurses win their employment tribunal

[Lovelyview]

https://christianconcern.com/ccpressreleases/victory-for-darlington-nurses-as-judge-rules-policy-that-allows-men-into-womens-changing-rooms-is-unlawful-harassment-and-discrimination/

Brilliant news!

I'M NOT SURE THAT IF YOU POST IN CAPS IT MAKES THE ARGUMENTS BETTER.

THAT'S JUST MY OPINION THOUGH. MAYBE IT'S REALLY EFFECTIVE SOMETIMES.

I answered your question, as did several others. It is very surprising that someone with such a genuine desire for answers, and a superior grasp of English, missed them all.

But I'll answer again. Transmen are women, so by default they can use the ladies', and they can't use the gents', as men have sex based rights too. However, if a transman has modified her body so much that she really, truly passes as a man (very few do), then she can legally be excluded from women's spaces because she would cause the same distress and self exclusion that actual men would cause. It's also acceptable for safeguards to occasionally catch the wrong person. In fact they very often do, usually far more frequently than in the case of passing transmen. We generally accept it when we can't do X or Y for safeguarding reasons and I don't know why so many people think this shouldn't apply when men want in on women's spaces.

This does pose a problem to passing transmen but that's their problem; they chose to make such modifications that they no longer resemble women. Their doctors should discuss this with them before they make these changes.

So there is the answer to your question. You're welcome.

@murasaki , I will happily read the supreme court ruling, however I erroneously thought it would be quicker and easier to get my question answered on here. Well how wrong was I? Still , it's passed a few hours of my evening.

You need the

bigly writing

for maximum effect. Caps just don't cut it these days.

No, instead of answering my question you took deliberate personal stabs at me, making numerous assumptions about me and what I supposedly think. @nauticant, I was using capital letter for the posters who seem unable to read/understand lowercase.

You've had the answer several times now, but don't seem capable of absorbing it.

I'm sure, back when it was all fields around here, that it used to be polite to familiarise oneself with a topic before charging in to announce one's opinion.

One called the Guardian the “Guarditerf” lol lol lol

I think transactivists work to different rules don't they?

Go on then, it’s only 88 pages. Chop chop.

It would seem so.

I'm sorry that the answer wasn't what you wanted, which was obviously, "OH NO WE NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT WHAT ABOUT TRANSMEN YOU ARE RIGHT LET'S GET KNOBS OUT IN THE LADIES' RIGHT AWAY TO PROVE WE ARE GOOD PEOPLE".

You realise that you don't have to do this, though. Clearly you know men aren't women. That's why you started going on about never having had a penis when I referred to you as male. That's why you even understand the concept of a transman and the Transman Gotcha. Once you accept that people can dress and present as they like, they just need to stay out of spaces not for their sex - you know, like absolutely everyone - you no longer have to pretzel yourself and get offended by reality,.

I really do recommend it.

If they'd started when it was released, even with a slow reading speed, they'd be done by now.

You asked your first question on page 2. You got the answer at the top of page 3:

"They are biological women's so they use the women's. We want to keep mem out of the women's changing rooms not women."

Oh, and I did answer the question at 12.32 today, and just did it again. Don't say I don't do anything for you.

Trans men are female and can use the female changing rooms as they have a legal right to do and as they are female they don't pose the same risk to women as males do (therefore the dont instill the same fear) As only 5% of trans men opt for phalloplasty (perfectly understandable given the complication rates and outcomes) and 2% opt for metoidioplasty,the group you refer to would be very small but perhaps a solution would be to provide a third space for those females with body modifications for the comfort of the trans men and for the comfort of women. I third gender neutral spaces for those who wish and consent to them seems a reasonable solution.

@KittyWilkinson Thanks for the clarity, the uppercase really helped 😃
Yes my question has been answered, but the inability of so many people to not see it as a simple query , but instead insist I had some agenda is astounding.

Really interesting, thanks. I guess that’s why the Jaguar Landrover tribunal gets called a “landmark judgment” as supposedly it’s about “non binary” even though it isn’t, really.

You pulled the Transman Gotcha, ignored the numerous posters who answered it, told us we didn't understand English, flounced, came back, ignored the answers again and still think you're right.

Astounding indeed.

Indeed, and I suspect the transman would even be the one asking for some other place to use, before they had to change for the first time.

It's something I noticed back when I was in the community: transmen tend to be very proactive. We anticipate the potential problems and take steps to prevent them. A passing transman in such a situation would very likely want to avoid having to use the women's changing room, both (as you said) for their own and the women's comfort, and so would quietly ask right away for another arrangement to be made.

Great news!

@ThatCyanCat Still no idea what a Transman Gotcha is, and less idea why 'you' can't give it a rest. I didn't ignore the answer, but I just couldn't ignore the personal attacks so kept coming back to try to understand why there was a need for such vitriol. You clearly have nothing better to do with your time.

The transmen gotcha is when bad faith actors introduce the idea of a transman in women's changing rooms. Expecting women to go 'oh no', leaving the transman with nowhere to go. Except most women say, fine, in the women's, as they're biologically female. So it's dropped as soon as it gets a response.

I can’t imagine a woman who identifies as a man who had genital surgery would be keen to undress fully in front of men, either.

And especially dropped when it gets a response from @Seethlaw , as that response doesn't fit the required narrative, despite being from an actual transman.