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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Civil servants should be able to choose ‘appropriate single sex toilets’ for their gender - Cabinet Office guidelines

19 replies

IwantToRetire · 29/12/2025 20:14

The Cabinet Office’s “Civil Service Gender Identity and Intersex Model Policy” says that an individual should be able to choose the “appropriate single sex toilets” for their gender.

It also says that repeatedly “misgendering” someone, in other words referring to them as a gender other than the one they identify with, can constitute bullying.

“Deliberate, continued and/or repeated incidents are unacceptable and should be dealt with using the bullying, harassment and discrimination policy,” it adds.

Full article https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/12/29/civil-servants-defying-supreme-court-trans-ruling/

Also at https://archive.is/M1KvM

Civil servants should be able to choose ‘appropriate single sex toilets’ for their gender - Cabinet Office guidelines
OP posts:
possomblossom · 29/12/2025 20:19

I'd love to know how many wummin/wimmin/women/womb-havers were consulted about any of this.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/12/2025 21:15

The civil service has an extremely powerful trans lobby group, “A:Gender”. https://www.agender.org.uk/

Oldandgreyer · 29/12/2025 21:18

God they're a bunch of holes.

Dragonasaurus · 29/12/2025 21:20

Musing - is it possible to ‘misgender’ someone if you choose to use sex-based pronouns? Is your employer allowed to insist that you use gender-based pronouns?

That guidance looks to be in direct contravention of the SC ruling…

ChristmasHug · 29/12/2025 21:23

There has been a consultation around their updated guidance, it was sent to various groups for comment and leaked via pink news. It sounded a bit more suitable but was before the FWS judgement. Still jot released obviously.

My worry is that we keep getting told 'no one complained'. I know several women who have complained, but they haven't gone through the whole formal complaint process because it's ridiculously time consuming and you'll get no support from the unions.

ChristmasHug · 29/12/2025 21:24

Dragonasaurus · 29/12/2025 21:20

Musing - is it possible to ‘misgender’ someone if you choose to use sex-based pronouns? Is your employer allowed to insist that you use gender-based pronouns?

That guidance looks to be in direct contravention of the SC ruling…

I think it might be reasonable to exoect you to use 'them' or their name, but you shouldn't be pulled up on occasional lapses.

It could be bullying to be purposefully outing someone by calling him him to people who may not have met him or not realised its a tw (lol).

SionnachRuadh · 29/12/2025 21:25

I'd love to know what consultation happened around the 2019 guidance, or if - and suuurely this can't be possible - they just spoke to a:gender and said "all your suggestions seem completely reasonable and certainly won't inconvenience female staff".

MagpiePi · 29/12/2025 21:41

So how does it work when I want to choose toilets that are single sex, where that sex is female as defined in English law. but my employer allows men to use those toilets because they (the men) think it is appropriate for their ‘gender’?

Let me take a wild guess…

Civil servants should be able to choose ‘appropriate single sex toilets’ for their gender - Cabinet Office guidelines
Incelebration · 29/12/2025 21:44

possomblossom · 29/12/2025 20:19

I'd love to know how many wummin/wimmin/women/womb-havers were consulted about any of this.

I'd love to know how many intersex people were consulted.

BundleBoogie · 29/12/2025 21:53

ChristmasHug · 29/12/2025 21:24

I think it might be reasonable to exoect you to use 'them' or their name, but you shouldn't be pulled up on occasional lapses.

It could be bullying to be purposefully outing someone by calling him him to people who may not have met him or not realised its a tw (lol).

But if we don’t recognise the concept of ‘gender’, and only use the word ‘gender’ as a euphemism for sex, and when we talk we are referring to a persons sex, are we even misgendering?

I think to be properly enforceable, they need a sensible and stable definition of ‘misgendering’ but as the meanings of ‘gender’ and ‘identify as’ are at best highly contested , they haven’t even got that.

nancpmf · 29/12/2025 22:10

There is no safe space in the CS for gender critical women. Trans activists systematically searched people’s calendars for SEEN related appointments and created their own lists of “transphobia staff” and targeted them. Our own women’s network is infiltrated by men, as a result, I don’t interact at all despite being at a pivotal point of my career seeking support to SCS.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 29/12/2025 23:51

nancpmf · 29/12/2025 22:10

There is no safe space in the CS for gender critical women. Trans activists systematically searched people’s calendars for SEEN related appointments and created their own lists of “transphobia staff” and targeted them. Our own women’s network is infiltrated by men, as a result, I don’t interact at all despite being at a pivotal point of my career seeking support to SCS.

That is awful, open bullying of staff - and very predictable. The civil service has openly and repeatedly breached the Nolan Principles of public life for years. It's why they have such an appalling reputation nationally - which I know is unfair to all the diligent staff but the self indulgent, queer theory loons have never been challenged so they run amok.

deadpan · 30/12/2025 01:44

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/12/2025 21:15

The civil service has an extremely powerful trans lobby group, “A:Gender”. https://www.agender.org.uk/

A very sophisticated website considering it's relevant to less than 2000 people including "allies".
And how many minors work in the civil service to necessitate this "to provide guidance on how to support trans and intersex people and the parents, carers and guardians of trans and intersex young people". So basically they aren't limiting their "guidance" to employees in the workplace, but imparting their (dubious) knowledge in relation to employees offspring.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 30/12/2025 02:58

deadpan · 30/12/2025 01:44

A very sophisticated website considering it's relevant to less than 2000 people including "allies".
And how many minors work in the civil service to necessitate this "to provide guidance on how to support trans and intersex people and the parents, carers and guardians of trans and intersex young people". So basically they aren't limiting their "guidance" to employees in the workplace, but imparting their (dubious) knowledge in relation to employees offspring.

Indeed.

nicepotoftea · 30/12/2025 09:03

ChristmasHug · 29/12/2025 21:23

There has been a consultation around their updated guidance, it was sent to various groups for comment and leaked via pink news. It sounded a bit more suitable but was before the FWS judgement. Still jot released obviously.

My worry is that we keep getting told 'no one complained'. I know several women who have complained, but they haven't gone through the whole formal complaint process because it's ridiculously time consuming and you'll get no support from the unions.

It’s all very ‘but nobody complained about our racist jokes, it was just bantz’

NeedForSpeedyGonzales · 30/12/2025 09:09

Ref minors and the CS - many many CS agencies have direct daily contact with the public including children. All policies will extend to them, not just staff.

However this is why we need SEEN, and is why I'm actively pushing back against the inclusion of pronouns on email and Teams headers. It makes it clear that anyone who is GC cannot seek support anything relating to sex discrimination. I like to use the words "I do not feel safe".

AlexandraLeaving · 30/12/2025 12:28

nancpmf · 29/12/2025 22:10

There is no safe space in the CS for gender critical women. Trans activists systematically searched people’s calendars for SEEN related appointments and created their own lists of “transphobia staff” and targeted them. Our own women’s network is infiltrated by men, as a result, I don’t interact at all despite being at a pivotal point of my career seeking support to SCS.

This is a fucking disgrace. I am so sorry you are putting up with this and so sorry that the Civil Service I was proud to be a part of for many years has disintegrated into such a cess-pit of bullying.

AlexandraLeaving · 30/12/2025 12:29

I can't see how any of this can be consistent with the CS values of objectivity, honesty, integrity and impartiality.

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