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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans Identified Male Places 417th in the Boys Category then 1st in the Girl's Category

55 replies

ThisMauveQuoter · 29/12/2025 00:48

The first time she ran the 5,000 meters on the boys cross-country team, she came in 417th place. She had fun, though. She felt as fast as a fire engine when she jogged through the woods, and later, after she joined the track team, her male teammates didn’t say anything when she ran in a skirt. She almost felt like she belonged, but she knew she wasn’t one of them.
>>
Today would be the first time in nine months that she would race against her toughest competitor, a junior named Lauren Matthew. Lauren was one of the best athletes in Eastern Washington. She played soccer for a nearly undefeated team. She raced club track in the summers. And she had finished just behind Verónica at the 2024 state championships.
>>
Now, it was a Saturday in late March, and few people had come to watch their first rematch. Lauren and Verónica crouched into position one lane apart, but they didn’t look at each other. A gun fired. They bolted out of their blocks, and suddenly, Verónica wasn’t hungry or afraid. She ran with the kind of joy she only felt in competition, and when she and Lauren crossed the finish line, the scoreboard showed they had both clocked personal records — 56.65 seconds for Lauren, 55.23 for Verónica.
>>
Verónica looked at the awards she had hung on the wall. She won most of them at small-town events. Last year, she earned her first big medal — the 2A Washington state championship in the girls’ 400 meters. The win had changed her life, but not in the ways she had hoped. Colleges had not sent her scholarship offers or letters of interest. Her high school had not listed her on its wall of champions. All she had to show for that win was a gold medal and a growing list of people around the country who wanted to take it away.

Trans Identified Male Places 417th in the Boys Category then 1st in the Girl's Category
OP posts:
thirdfiddle · 29/12/2025 01:13

The adults who allowed this have abused this child. This boy.
He could have been encouraged to train hard and wear skirts if he damn well pleased. Maybe he would have earned success in the sport he loves.
He's been allowed to cheat, and everyone knows it. This was never in his best interests.

ThisMauveQuoter · 29/12/2025 01:32

He would've actually made a name for himself had he continued competing against other boys in the skirt.

I've always wondered why these males are so insistent upon redefining womanhood rather than redefining manhood. This would actually help society rather than trying to take from women.

But unfortunately, the answer is just plain old misogyny and incel behavior.

When this man spoke about the biological girls that he competed against he made a lot of assumptions about their socio-economic status to try to justify leveraging his athletic advantage to dominate races.

A lot of these males are just left-wing incels that happen to also be gay and that's why they act so entitled to women's spaces.

OP posts:
LesbianNana · 29/12/2025 01:33

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/for-young-transgender-runner-racing-wasn-t-the-hardest-thing/ar-AA1Ta4Fa?ocid=Peregrine

Unsurprisingly, competing against girls didn’t rank among the more difficult aspects for this boy. Who could have guessed?

471st while competing with boys (who didn’t care he was on their team, even when he was running in a skirt like a weirdo) and 1st with girls. That’s it right there. But the sCieNcE isn’t settled.

MSN

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/for-young-transgender-runner-racing-wasn-t-the-hardest-thing/ar-AA1Ta4Fa?ocid=Peregrine

IrnBruAndDietCoke · 29/12/2025 02:04

I was just saying to DH yesterday, isn't it an incredible coincidence, the sheer number of below-average male sportspersons (usually in countries that place a huge importance on sporting success, no less) who wake up one day and discover they're actually female. It mysteriously almost never happens to female sportspersons; how many have "found themselves" and gone from being a multi-gold-medallist to being number 431 in the men's category? It's like this story only works one way--the way that advantages males.
In fact, is there any other category of people whose "journey to self discovery" just coincides with giving them a massive advantage in a very prestigious thing that gets them stuff like scholarships, sponsorships etc?
But definitely a total coincidence.

silverwrath · 29/12/2025 02:34

My heart goes out to the young women who have to compete in this charade.

Because it's not 'competition'. It's just a bloody farce.

How can this male actually think they won fairly? Stand on that podium thinking they're a star athlete.

Justme56 · 29/12/2025 03:19

Everyone knows this is unfair. However, if you are convinced that TWAW denying them access would be like admitting they are not.

strangle · 29/12/2025 03:28

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Daleksatemyshed · 29/12/2025 07:39

It's very telling how he thought winning the women's category would mean lots of offers of money and scholarships. No thought given to the women who lost out. Maybe more people are seeing that a man taking women's glory isn't fair so they don't deserve scholarships

Buttcraic · 29/12/2025 07:44

Ergh, really turns my stomach to think of the girls' dreams being crushed by those cheaters!

Why couldnt he just run in a skirt? Redefine manhood, not womanhood, as suggested above? I feel like back in the 90s that's what happened, i remember my mum clubbing with her male friends in skirts, it was all about breaking out of boxes and labels. Now its poison.

NeelyOHara · 29/12/2025 07:49

Hideous, what a revolting individual. Wonder if the usual suspects/incels will be along in a minute to tell us they the girls simply need to try harder.

Pabbel · 29/12/2025 08:00

He is just a cheat!

Bebetterbetty · 29/12/2025 08:00

silverwrath · 29/12/2025 02:34

My heart goes out to the young women who have to compete in this charade.

Because it's not 'competition'. It's just a bloody farce.

How can this male actually think they won fairly? Stand on that podium thinking they're a star athlete.

Because of arseholes who write articles like the one OP posted, which are meant to make readers feel sorry for this man, and that he is so terribly being discriminated against in the only thing that brings him true joy. The Democratic Party and many of its voters are firmly behind people like this young man.

nauticant · 29/12/2025 08:04

A report of the race, including photos:

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2024/jun/02/east-valley-teen-is-the-first-washington-transgend/

It's worth bearing in mind Garcia is exploiting but working within the rules that idiots have put in place.

2021x · 29/12/2025 08:18

It is particularly disgusting that the adults would put a child in this position for their own selfish reasons.

They are thinking of the movie narrative, rather about what is reasonable and achievable.

From my understanding there is a huge increase in trans-men (4000% was the number I heard) in this age group. Why do we never hear about their sporting participation or achievements.

Toseland · 29/12/2025 08:33

That article is emotional blackmail. Oh and I doubt you can wear shoes two sizes too small!

Helleofabore · 29/12/2025 08:37

www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/for-young-transgender-runner-racing-wasn-t-the-hardest-thing/ar-AA1Ta4Fa?ocid=Peregrine

This article doesn’t surprise me from WaPo. It is emotionally manipulative story telling from the first word.

What is surprising is that this child’s school coach didn’t seem to have worked out that Garcia was starving and wearing ill fitting shoes. But the coach was fully ‘supportive’.

What is also very clear is this 17 year old male athlete has been fed all the fallacies and believes them and this article repeats them in a tired old cycle:

-The Phelps fallacy.

But sports were never fair, Verónica thought as she rode a school bus to a track across town. The swimmer Michael Phelps had an unusually long wingspan, and Brittney Griner towered over the WNBA.

(Reader’s note: Griner has been discussed many times as being a male athlete with a DSD that basketball have allowed through policy to play in the female category.)

-The I am only skinny, and ‘short’ (relatively) so I am not like the other male athletes fallacy.

“I’m a twig,” Verónica told her mother, Traci Brown. “Who could I hurt?”

-The ‘my team mates want me there’ fallacy

She added three beaded friendship bracelets her teammates had made to commemorate her senior season”

Of course, it is great that this person made friends. However, it is irrelevant to the point that he should not be competing as a female athlete. Yet the article makes much of this team mate support.

-The fallacy that current testosterone level is the only advantage that matters and it cancels out all other advantages.

Once upon a time, Verónica had had higher testosterone levels than other girls, but she wasn’t sure that was the case anymore

and

”She hadn’t broken any rules. She was suppressing her testosterone”

This teen has an over reliance on the belief that testosterone suppression makes it acceptable for him to compete as female.

Verónica watched the interview and felt the girl wasn’t being fair to her competitors. If she wasn’t suppressing her testosterone, as far as Verónica understood it, that meant she did have an advantage.

-The fallacy that other allowable advantages should balance out male pubertal advantages.

she knew plenty of girls who had advantages she did not. Some hired personal trainers. Others had the kind of expensive shoes that can help propel runners ahead of their competition. Her own shoes were donated and two sizes too small.

-The fallacy that only Trump supporters and conservative religious people want to exclude male athletes from female sports competitions.

Spokane is conservative. At least half of the cars parked outside her apartment complex had Trump stickers, and she knew several girls on the team were Christians. What if they didn’t want to run with her?

and

“What was it doing on the track?” a tall girl in a hijab said

-The ‘case by case’ fallacy

Her situation was different, Verónica thought. She had taken medication, and so she hadn’t retained whatever hormonal advantages she might have had. But the president didn’t seem inclined to consider athletes on a case-by-base basis

I also wonder if we, as readers, are supposed to feel that malnutrition, ill fitting shoes was supposed to add to the ‘case by case’ situation.

-The ‘not winning therefore no advantage’ fallacy.

Verónica had beaten Lauren that first race of the season, but she lost her second event of the day — an 800-meter sprint — by 19 seconds. A few weeks later, she ran one of the slowest 400 meters she had ever raced. Meanwhile, the campaign against trans athletes was picking up speed”.

and

“Like 605 girls could easily whoop my ass,” she wrote. “(I’m ranked 606th nationally.) My time, while fast, isn’t some magical number that cisgender girls couldn’t reach.”

-The ‘I am a good sport, those protesting female competitors are poor sports’ fallacy

Verónica clapped as the announcer read each medal winner. Girls from Bainbridge and Sehome and Cedar Crest took their spots on the podium. When the announcer called Lauren, the crowd roared, and Verónica clapped, but Lauren’s second-place spot remained empty

There are a few references to the ‘sportsmanship’ ethic throughout this article. As if female athletes should be celebrating being beaten or having to compete with a male athlete and should therefore be shamed because they don’t celebrate this male athlete’s achievements.

-The biology is complicated therefore male athletes should be included in female categories fallacy.

Verónica longed to ask Lauren what she thought a real girl was. Biology suggests it’s far more complicated than chromosomes

-The dominating fallacy. (In this case ‘I didn’t dominate the race, but still overtook the female competitor to win’ fallacy)

“I didn’t dominate the race,” she wrote on Instagram. “I only started taking the lead the last 170 meters.”

Reading this article, it just feels like so many adults have let this teen down in so many ways. It is like this teen has been fed a constant stream of misinformation with adults who should be providing balanced and evidenced information being never mentioned. Only mentioned as haters while the enablers were fully supportive and seemed to support the fallacious thinking.

I suspect any neutral voice would have been dismissed by this teen as being the hateful Trump supporters, conservative religious people or transphobic people though. Or … the dreaded ‘middle aged’ haters. Because the journalist seemed to focus on those descriptions as if they were caricatures.

Bluntly, the constant reference to the poverty that this teenager is living in is also emotionally manipulative. His competing would still be unethical if he was from a wealthy family.

Then there is the use of other heavily emotionally laden language, such as ‘danger’, ‘threat’, ‘arrested’. All without pointing out that the science has been established and will not change. Instead it is just an overly emotional article that continues to feed a sense of injustice that these male athletes should be excluded from female events. Not banned from competing, because they could compete in the male events.

The constant portrayal of this male teenager as being weak, malnourished, very poor, frightened with very poor mental health, and testosterone suppressed is very deliberate when the writer then mentions Garcia’s competitors as ‘standing ramrod straight and strong’. It really is a study of hyperbolic drama to distract from evidence and fact.

The irony is that this article presents a testosterone suppressed late aged teen male athlete who is undernourished with poor fitting shoes who still came first in the female category.

Towards the end of the article, Garcia even says this:

”Verónica told herself she had also dedicated herself to excellence. She had trained hard, and she had done so without a bed or good shoes or even enough food”

I feel like the adults in official positions of authority in Garcia’s life failed him- such as his doctor, his coaches etc. The writer of this article picked up the issue but did not point out the obvious. This teenager was an isolated, depressed child who came from a challenging family situation, including the death of a parent figure and without enough food, who is up front about needing to find somewhere to ‘belong’. What a group of adults have done is affirm a gender identity and encourage him to compete as a female athlete.

This writer has emotionally leveraged this, and Garcia’s victimhood of his inclusion being protested, and his horrific personal situation including being raped while homeless, to convince people that that some male people deserve special treatment to allow them to compete as female athletes when they are male people on testosterone suppression.

I hope Garcia has plenty of professional and unbiased mental health support. Because he really must need it to sort through all that has happened.

Helleofabore · 29/12/2025 08:41

s://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/for-young-transgender-runner-racing-wasn-t-the-hardest-thing/ar-AA1Ta4Fa?ocid=Peregrine

Meanwhile, from reading this article, there were adults telling this 17 year old that he is doing the right thing, that people shouldn’t be protesting and complaining because he is just a teenager. Yet those people who supported his inclusion dismiss the fact they have put a child into this situation.

Even the Governor

in mid-June, Washington Gov. Bob Ferguson (D) sent her a letter.

“You exemplified leadership, determination and dedication,” Ferguson wrote. “This was no small feat, especially as you faced unprecedented challenges to earn this title.”

And put female children in the situation where they have been treated unfairly by adults who should fucking know better.

This new scheme, such as introduced in California this year, of allowing these male children to compete but not get acknowledged through placing and scholarship is just fucked up. It is not healthy for those male athletes and it still is harmful to the girls because of the message that allowing the male athletes to compete sends even subconsciously, that a better athlete won but because of society’s restrictions doesn’t get rewarded.

Just to clarify that I know the male athletes are not ‘better’, but the psychological impact to the female athletes that there was an athlete in front of them who has not been awarded is still potentially a subconscious message to those female athletes.

It is far kinder and consistent to have a clean ban. They are children who are competing and this new scheme is not healthy mentally for either the male or the female athletes in the female events.

MSN

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/for-young-transgender-runner-racing-wasn-t-the-hardest-thing/ar-AA1Ta4Fa?ocid=Peregrine

Helleofabore · 29/12/2025 08:44

NeelyOHara · 29/12/2025 07:49

Hideous, what a revolting individual. Wonder if the usual suspects/incels will be along in a minute to tell us they the girls simply need to try harder.

I have sympathy for him because this really is a case of a very vulnerable boy (at the time) who was let down by the adults who should have known better.

There is no way he should have been competing as a female athlete. However, he was allowed and actively encouraged.

Helleofabore · 29/12/2025 08:46

nauticant · 29/12/2025 08:04

A report of the race, including photos:

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2024/jun/02/east-valley-teen-is-the-first-washington-transgend/

It's worth bearing in mind Garcia is exploiting but working within the rules that idiots have put in place.

Yes.

And for adults seemingly so supportive, Garcia seems to have slipped down a few cracks where he really needed adults to dig deeper and provide proper support.

Pingponghavoc · 29/12/2025 09:00

The sympathy is based on the idea that it would be humiliating for a 'normal' boy to be seen as a girl and have to be in girls sport because he's not good enough to compete against boys.

But because he's happy be seen as a girl and competing against girls, he should because his wellbeing is priority, even in the girls sport.

Helleofabore · 29/12/2025 09:10

There is a lot of damage being done to these children in so many ways. As well as to female athletes by this inclusion of boys and men.

Gender identity theory is misogynistic as can be seen by the outcomes.

But because he's happy be seen as a girl and competing against girls, he should because his wellbeing is priority, even in the girls sport.

Whatever reason is given to include a male in female sports events, it really is their wellbeing being prioritised. There can be no denying that.

lcakethereforeIam · 29/12/2025 09:20

I had a look at the original article

A transgender runner found success on the track and difficulty in life - The Washington Post https://share.google/gIe81jR38y2uihulc

There are lots of comments. I only read a few of the top ones. They mostly weren't supportive of males in women and girls sports.

Some said parts didn't ring true, Washington apparently pays for cross sex drugs but they also have a generous welfare system. They couldn't understand how his mum signed up to get the hormones but, somehow, couldn't get them more than a few portions of rice.

Also many complaints that the article was too long.

I disliked the focus on Lauren and concentrating on her 'unsupportive' behaviour it potentially puts her in the crosshairs of trans activists. Some of these people are unhinged. Some have already taken extreme actions. Imo, this is extremely irresponsible. This bloke has chosen to be the subject of this pity party. I doubt Lauren had any say in any of this. Hopefully, although i didn't see any mention of it, they've used a pseudonym for her.

nauticant · 29/12/2025 09:25

I feel like the adults in official positions of authority in Garcia’s life failed him- such as his doctor, his coaches etc.

Note this:

East Valley Athletic Director Eric Vermaire said he did not want concerns about Garcia’s participation to overshadow her and the team’s accomplishments.

“Verónica contributed – no doubt about it. But it was a group of girls that did something as a team, and they are elated,” he said, noting this is the first state championship for East Valley’s girls track team since he was hired at the school seven years ago.
...
Garcia said Vermaire has been her biggest supporter since coming out.

Coatsoff42 · 29/12/2025 09:32

I would think there is no offer of money and scholarships because colleges and sponsors see which way the wind is blowing and sponsoring an athlete who is mediocre in their accurate category and highly unpopular with the paying public and contentious in competition in their ‘preferred’ category is not a good business decision. It’s better to endorse a solid and unarguable candidate who will provide reliable results (as much as any athlete can).

Helleofabore · 29/12/2025 09:42

lcakethereforeIam · 29/12/2025 09:20

I had a look at the original article

A transgender runner found success on the track and difficulty in life - The Washington Post https://share.google/gIe81jR38y2uihulc

There are lots of comments. I only read a few of the top ones. They mostly weren't supportive of males in women and girls sports.

Some said parts didn't ring true, Washington apparently pays for cross sex drugs but they also have a generous welfare system. They couldn't understand how his mum signed up to get the hormones but, somehow, couldn't get them more than a few portions of rice.

Also many complaints that the article was too long.

I disliked the focus on Lauren and concentrating on her 'unsupportive' behaviour it potentially puts her in the crosshairs of trans activists. Some of these people are unhinged. Some have already taken extreme actions. Imo, this is extremely irresponsible. This bloke has chosen to be the subject of this pity party. I doubt Lauren had any say in any of this. Hopefully, although i didn't see any mention of it, they've used a pseudonym for her.

I agree with all you say here Cake.

Either this boy slipped through all the welfare check cracks of those at school and prescribing him drugs, or there is something amiss. I read this with a sense of astonishment that a coach would not do welfare checks on a representational athete that including checking shoes.

And yes, Lauren was vilified in this article.