Page 4 | Woman banned from Council gyms...guess why? Protest 10th Jan at 1 pm see post on pg.7

lcakethereforeIam · 2025-12-24T11:09:54+00:00

Those who guessed 'because she objected to a man in the women's changing room', give yourselves a pat on the back [[https://archive.ph/wLUBN https://archive.ph/wLUBN]] [[https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/12/23/council-gym-trans-row https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/12/23/council-gym-trans-row/]]

Incelebration · 27/12/2025 21:57

AndSoFinally · 25/12/2025 22:24

@MysticalPombearyes exactly that

WTAF?! 😠

MirandainSouthwark · 27/12/2025 22:43

lcakethereforeIam · 27/12/2025 21:31

Has the man also been banned? I'm assuming he was also participating in this discussion that went on too long and too publicly.

The council says they can’t comment on other people’s situations. But surely filming in the opposite-sex changing room (or even your actual sex’s changing room) must be the biggest offence.

Original poster

lcakethereforeIam · 27/12/2025 22:49

That's convenient for them. The man, afaik, remains anonymous. They could comment, if they chose to, even if it's just as a hypothetical.

OP posts:

MirandainSouthwark · 27/12/2025 22:56

Kimura · 26/12/2025 15:17

In the article.

She admits herself that the exchange became heated and that police had to attend. It wasn't up to her to police the situation in person and drag people into a heated argument in public.

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The police came because he yelled that he was afraid as I had raised a fist at him.
I hadn’t.
I had earbuds in one hand, so my fingers were closed around them.
I have never raised a fist at a man.
He was filming at the time, so I told the council they could check his video and see I never threatened him or raised a fist.
He called the cops.
I guess I wasn’t demure and ladylike enough for the council’s liking.
They never told us women that their policy actually allows men with long hair into the female changing room!

MirandainSouthwark · 27/12/2025 22:57

JellySaurus · 26/12/2025 15:24

Safeguarding is everybody’s responsibility. This appalling ideology has succeeded in inserting itself into public life and allowed men to invade women’s spaces only because people have been too frightened to speak up.

It absolutely was up to her. It shouldn’t have been, but she stepped up and did the right thing.

There is no suggestion that the police were called because she did anything actually wrong. The police themselves said so. The police were called because the leisure centre staff were too afraid of the entitled man and the entrenched anti-safeguarding, anti-inclusive culture to stand up to them and follow the law.

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The fella called the police because he said I raised at fist at him and he wasn’t scared.
I never raised a fist at him. As if!

MirandainSouthwark · 27/12/2025 22:59

MrsOvertonsWindow · 26/12/2025 15:30

Isn't it wearying how those promoting the rights of creepy men to observe girls and women undressing always try to frame women objecting as the unreasonable ones.

Their determination to remove women's rights to autonomy, privacy and to stand up to potential flashers and voyeurs know no bounds. Like a Victorian gentleman insisting that "woman know thy place - ideally undressed in front of a random man" 🙄

Edited

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Thank you so much.
I believe “not acceptable” was the council’s term for my behaviour.
Only a deep bow, soft voice and utter compliance is acceptable. We must let men do what they want anywhere they want – and not make a fuss about it.

MirandainSouthwark · 27/12/2025 23:03

Kimura · 26/12/2025 17:12

You are blaming her for not being 'nice' enough, when a man was in the women's changing room filming them.

No, I'm not. I'm stating that she was banned as a result of her behavior, not her views.

What do you think she should have done?

Why do you assume I think she should have done anything differently? I have no issue with what she did at all.

But actions have consequences.

If there were no staff in there, who do you think should 'police the situation'?

There were staff there.

It's not wrong to point out to the staff that there was a man in the women's changing room.

I agree.

It's not wrong to ask him to leave.

Again, I agree, but ultimately it was the responsibility of the venue staff to deal with that situation, not her.

The situation escalated into a heated verbal altercation on a very emotive subject in the premises, shouting about surgery and ultimately the police having to put a stop to it. Take the subject matter out of it for a second; can you imagine any scenario in which a gym, shop or pub etc wouldn't ban someone for that?

She decided she wanted to have it out with this person, face to face, in public, at volume. Fine. The council decided they didn't want her doing that in their gyms.

Why do we need to pretend that she was banned for her views?

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The police didn’t put a stop to it.
the front desk person asked me to go back upstairs and continue my workout. The police came and spoke to the man. Later I came down and spoke with police for about 25 seconds and then spoke with the manager for a long time.

MirandainSouthwark · 27/12/2025 23:05

SirChenjins · 26/12/2025 17:43

Exactly how are women supposed to challenge men in their changing rooms 'correctly'? Remembering, for example, the fragrant Dr Upton who said something along the lines of it wouldn't have mattered what Sandie Peggie said, he wasn't moving. Men who behave the way these TiMs do aren't inclined to move to the correct changing room simply because a woman asks them nicely, just as establishments like Southwark aren't going to have an epiphany because a woman reminds them of the SC ruling with a please and thank you.

Edited

Thank you so much. Exactly this.

MirandainSouthwark · 27/12/2025 23:07

Bagsintheboot · 26/12/2025 17:26

I have to agree. If you're causing a ruckus - even if you're absolutely in the right - to the point the police are called then I don't think it's surprising if you're told not to come back.

Being a gender critical feminist and being in the right doesn't mean you can start shouting the odds at people without consequence.

If she'd raised the issue with staff without starting an argument and then was banned, I would agree it was an overreach and without cause. When even she admits in the paper that "it got heated", I really have to question how much of this is on her.

This isn't about "tone". This isn't about "we must be kind". This is just about normal standards of public behaviour.

And no, that man shouldn't have been in the changing room either. Everyone here sounds like they're in the wrong one way or another.

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The man threatened to call the police when we were in the changing room (and he was filming) because he said I raised a fist at him. (I didn’t). It wasn’t the public lobby.
the staff could have clarified the policy and asked us to come into a back room to discuss.

MirandainSouthwark · 27/12/2025 23:10

PassTheHanky · 27/12/2025 17:35

So:

there's an actual equality Law governing access to single sex changing rooms and sex is categorically defined as 'biological', but if a man breaks this law he is defended and protected;
there's also a non-existent, unwritten 'law' that governs how women can complain about males in the ladies changing room which has no definition whatsoever, but when the woman complains she's considered to be at fault and punished?

Oh for the days before this madness when a woman could scream blue murder if a man refused to leave the ladies changing room and the police would arrive and automatically protect the woman by escorting the man away.

This. I told the council I should have screamed, called the police and pulled the fire alarm. Instead, I very politely said it’s a female changing room and males like him make women uncomfortable.

FirmaTerra · 27/12/2025 23:18

"The police had to attend" @Kimura

"If you're causing a ruckus - even if you're absolutely in the right - to the point the police are called then I don't think it's surprising if you're told not to come back." @Bagsintheboot

You're both basically stating that it was necessary that the police was called. But it wasn't - the police themselves said this. And it was the trans-identifying man who called the police - not the Castle Leisure Centre.

The TiM said he was calling the police in the changing room before he or Miranda spoke to staff because he wrongly thought she was going to punch him. IIRC from what @MirandainSouthwark told me, he and Miranda then walked down the flight of stairs and across the large-ish foyer to the reception desk together, which suggests IMO that the TiM wasn't especially concerned about his safety at the hands of Miranda...

When the police came, they spoke to both the TiM and Miranda separately and they essentially said they didn't know why they'd been called, that it wasn't a matter for them and then they left not that long after arriving.

Kimura · 28/12/2025 02:15

Kucinghitam · 27/12/2025 21:33

I'm sure Kimura will Brave&Stunningly be delighted to be able to scold you directly for your incorrect and unreasonable behaviour... <won't hold my breath>

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Why don't you try reading my posts?

I don't think her behavior was incorrect or unreasonable at all. Why would I scold her for it?

NotBadConsidering · 28/12/2025 02:20

Kimura · 28/12/2025 02:15

Why don't you try reading my posts?

I don't think her behavior was incorrect or unreasonable at all. Why would I scold her for it?

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This you?

It wasn't up to her to police the situation in person and drag people into a heated argument in public.

Kimura · 28/12/2025 02:23

FirmaTerra · 27/12/2025 23:18

"The police had to attend" @Kimura

"If you're causing a ruckus - even if you're absolutely in the right - to the point the police are called then I don't think it's surprising if you're told not to come back." @Bagsintheboot

You're both basically stating that it was necessary that the police was called. But it wasn't - the police themselves said this. And it was the trans-identifying man who called the police - not the Castle Leisure Centre.

The TiM said he was calling the police in the changing room before he or Miranda spoke to staff because he wrongly thought she was going to punch him. IIRC from what @MirandainSouthwark told me, he and Miranda then walked down the flight of stairs and across the large-ish foyer to the reception desk together, which suggests IMO that the TiM wasn't especially concerned about his safety at the hands of Miranda...

When the police came, they spoke to both the TiM and Miranda separately and they essentially said they didn't know why they'd been called, that it wasn't a matter for them and then they left not that long after arriving.

You're both basically stating that it was necessary that the police was called. But it wasn't - the police themselves said this. And it was the trans-identifying man who called the police - not the Castle Leisure Centre.

I can't speak for the other poster but I'm stating nothing of the sort.

My point was that if someone behaves in a matter deemed unacceptable by the proprietors or a public facility/ business and engages in a lengthy, heated argument that ends with the police being called, it is not unreasonable for that facility/business to ban them.

I've not said or implied anything beyond that.

Kimura · 28/12/2025 02:26

NotBadConsidering · 28/12/2025 02:20

This you?

It wasn't up to her to police the situation in person and drag people into a heated argument in public.

Show quote history

Yes? It wasn't up to her, it was the staff's problem to address.

That doesn't mean I think she was wrong for doing what she did.

NotBadConsidering · 28/12/2025 03:32

Kimura · 28/12/2025 02:26

Yes? It wasn't up to her, it was the staff's problem to address.

That doesn't mean I think she was wrong for doing what she did.

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You’re scolding her. You’re making a judgement about an event without clear evidence of the facts and casting aspersions about her behaviour. You used loaded words: “dragged”. “Police” as a verb. “Heated”.

That’s a scolding.

Kimura · 28/12/2025 04:07

NotBadConsidering · 28/12/2025 03:32

You’re scolding her. You’re making a judgement about an event without clear evidence of the facts and casting aspersions about her behaviour. You used loaded words: “dragged”. “Police” as a verb. “Heated”.

That’s a scolding.

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Trust me, if I wanted to 'scold' anyone it would be incredibly apparent.

You’re making a judgement about an event without clear evidence of the facts and casting aspersions about her behaviour.

I've given no judgement on her behavior, other than to say I have no issue with it a number of times in this thread. Why would I want to scold someone for behavior I have no issue with?

All I know about this incident has come from the interview given by the woman herself, and her posts on this thread. I've cast no aspersions.

You used loaded words: “dragged”. “Police” as a verb. “Heated”.

'Heated' was her word, not mine. Is she scolding herself?

I mentioned that the incident ended with police involvement. This isn't 'loaded', it's a fact.

I think 'dragged' is a perfectly reasonable word to describe what happened, but feel free to suggest something less 'loaded' if it makes you feel better.

NotBadConsidering · 28/12/2025 04:15

I don’t care about my feelings. Just own your original post. You made a judgement, your post was critical and you’re now pretending that’s not what you meant. It clearly was.

Kimura · 28/12/2025 04:39

NotBadConsidering · 28/12/2025 04:15

I don’t care about my feelings. Just own your original post. You made a judgement, your post was critical and you’re now pretending that’s not what you meant. It clearly was.

Edited

I'll ask you again, why would I scold someone for behavior I have no issue with?

And if I had intended to scold someone, why would I now be trying to pretend that I wasn't?

NotBadConsidering · 28/12/2025 06:00

Kimura · 28/12/2025 04:39

I'll ask you again, why would I scold someone for behavior I have no issue with?

And if I had intended to scold someone, why would I now be trying to pretend that I wasn't?

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Because you’re only ok with her behaviour now. At the time of your first post you did.

Your second post said this:

Or maybe they just didn't care? Not everyone does.

Clearly you think this isn’t an issue and she behaved poorly.

This argument was done in reply to your posts originally on page 2. I don’t know why you can’t acknowledge your original intention and how you’ve changed your view, it would be a simple thing to do. No point rehashing it now it seems.

Kucinghitam · 28/12/2025 08:49

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

LivelyFinch · 28/12/2025 09:20

Well done @MirandainSouthwark
Absolutely appalling that you were put in that position but you are a total star for standing up for yourself. I hope you have the strength to take this further.

JellySaurus · 28/12/2025 09:51

Kimura’s attitude erects an SEP field around men in women’s spaces.

An SEP is something we can't see, or don't see, or our brain doesn't let us see, because we think that it's somebody else's problem. That’s what SEP means. Somebody Else’s Problem. The brain just edits it out, it's like a blind spot.

(Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy)

Who else should go unchallenged and be protected by a SEP field? Social transgressors, especially those who transgress sexual boundaries, tend to escalate their behaviours until they are extreme. Extremely harmful.

Was it the staff’s problem to address? He wasn’t a man who had opportunistically snuck into the women’s changing room - the staff had let him in! They had made a visual assessment of his fancy dress and approved his invasion. Maybe they were Jobsworths who thought it was SEP.

Miranda recognised a man causing a problem and addressed it. She did not escalate it, he did.

The police did not have to be called, he called them as part of his socially transgressive behaviour, he escalated the situation.

Kucinghitam · 28/12/2025 09:53

Ooh I got deleted for pointing out hypocrisy <proud>

SirChenjins · 28/12/2025 09:57

@Kimura we saw you. Perhaps this will serve as a reminder to you the next time you're tempted to take a woman to task for standing up for her legal right to privacy, dignity and safety - irrespective of how she chooses to do that.