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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

young relative wants to transition, family is reeling

73 replies

hilariasouzanem · 22/12/2025 23:58

My young adult nephew has told his parents he wants to transition, and it's come as a huge shock. They have strong feelings about it, understandably, as do I. I'm looking for resources for them to help them navigate this situation. I really feel they need support, ideally from people in the same boat. Are there support groups for parents in this position? There must be a board here on MN but I don't know where to look. Can anyone point me in the right direction please?

FWIW I have dipped in and out of the FWR boards for years, and my views would be considered GC. It's not something we've ever discussed within the family though.

And while I'm here, can anyone help with this question - what happened to the concept of social transitioning before medical transition? Didn't you used to have to do that for a year (two years?) before anyone would consider prescribing hormones? My DN is planning to start on hormones in a few weeks and this is all very new.

Leaving aside my GC position, I really feel he's not mature enough to make this decision. He's technically an adult but very young for his age. He has had a fairly serious mental health issue for several years, which has slowed his development. He has only this year found the right meds that have helped him recover (mostly but not completely) from that and he has some catching up to do.

Any pointers gratefully received. I will either share resources mentioned with SIL or show her this thread.

OP posts:
hilariasouzanem · 23/12/2025 22:57

PennyLaneisinmyheartandmysoul · 23/12/2025 22:55

So as long as he’s happy, sod the females he’s a shit to? That’s ok as he’s a poor lamb?

He hasn't been a shit to anyone

OP posts:
PennyLaneisinmyheartandmysoul · 23/12/2025 23:01

hilariasouzanem · 23/12/2025 22:57

He hasn't been a shit to anyone

But he sounds like a rather mecentric selfish individual?
why is he making such a drama over everything? Does he expect everyone to suddenly see him as a female because he wants it?

hilariasouzanem · 23/12/2025 23:20

@PennyLaneisinmyheartandmysoul he's always been sweet, kind, intelligent, funny. Right now, yes I would say he's being quite me-centric. Tbh he seems deluded and brainwashed and certain that transitioning is going to solve his problems.

Before this, I hadn't properly understood how true and real it would feel to someone who wants to transition. I thought it was more like coercing people into colluding with them. Well I guess I still think that actually but I guess I have another layer of nuance now. I need to think about it more. I think he's genuinely deluded - TWAW - so if he's a woman then of course he should be addressed as a woman.

I don't like this any more than you do. The difference is, it's arrived in my family.

OP posts:
ScrollingLeaves · 23/12/2025 23:29

PennyLaneisinmyheartandmysoul · 23/12/2025 22:55

So as long as he’s happy, sod the females he’s a shit to? That’s ok as he’s a poor lamb?

But that’s not what she said.

HoppityBun · 24/12/2025 01:54

Tadpolesinponds · 23/12/2025 22:39

He ran a gender dysphoria clinic for a decade. He says that his patients were: 1) transsexuals - people who wanted to change their bodies (wanted to be the opposite sex), 2) transsexuals who were post-operative regretters, 3) tranvestites - enjoyed dressing up in women's clothes sometimes, either fetishist or non-fetishist, not interested in changing their bodies/becoming female (there were a large number of these men), 4) AGP (excited by the fantasy of having a vagina and breasts). The AGP men were a small minority.

Then he visited the Tavistock and saw young camp children being turned from gay to trans by the clinic. The Tavistock disapproved of homosexuality.

In his research /observation of the transsexuals, he found that they were almost all either autistic, or suffered from trauma, or had internalised homophobia. Autistic people are very rules-based. The degree of autism corelated with how much they were going to regret medical treatment. Autistic people felt they were different, searched for a reason, decided they were the wrong sex and latched on to that. Then as they were autistic they were sure of that and wouldn't let go. They had a fantasy vision of the sex change solving everything. After the sex change, the very autistic ones didn't regret but the less autistic ones did, because they were better at seeing that others didn't see them as the new sex.

Group therapy was effective because the regretters talked the others round. The regretters wished that their family and friends had not been supportive of their decision to transition, but had questioned them.

None of the men were able to describe what it is to be a woman, other than the stereotypes.

Might that be one approach? To discuss what it means to be a woman?

Kilopascal · 24/12/2025 06:57

He has had a fairly serious mental health issue for several years, which has slowed his development. He has only this year found the right meds that have helped him recover

I would be strongly suggesting to him not to muck about with any unsupervised meds on top of what he's already taking. Not if he values his sanity.

mycatcontrolsmewith5g · 24/12/2025 08:00

I’ve just listened to a podcast called dangerous minds. Not at all to do with gender ideology but it has some good info on the psychology of cults

stella O’Malley written a decent book too I believe.

BonfireLady · 24/12/2025 09:29

Before this, I hadn't properly understood how true and real it would feel to someone who wants to transition.

This is key. Finding ways to empathise and carefully unpick those feelings is what helped us move forward. But it was very, very, very slow. Lots of small, piecemeal conversations. Everyone will be different when it comes to a starting point that lands OK, but it was fairness sport that really helped prise open the conversation for us about what it means to be a boy or girl. My daughter is on a girls' football team and had been feeling cross already about women's sports being encroached upon by males. In parallel, we were directly addressing what felt uncomfortable about her body e.g. sports bras to help with sensory issues about breast development. I told her she wasn't to make any changes that "move you away from the reality of being female" while she explored all her feelings.

BonfireLady · 24/12/2025 09:32

To add: she was 13 at the time, so telling her this was age appropriate. I appreciate your nephew is older so gentle steering and suggestion may be more appropriate.

(And to any TRAs out there who think this is "conversion therapy", it's not. Nobody can be "converted" into believing in objective reality. However, they certainly can be converted into not doing)

Imbrocator · 24/12/2025 10:00

Perhaps trying to illuminate how unlikely it is that becoming a woman will solve his problems might be the best place to start? It sounds like he’s pinning all his hopes on finding The Answer in transitioning, and that’s certainly the lie many young people are fed.

If it’s possible to have this discussion with him maybe that will help to swing the needle a little, especially if you’re able to find any interviews with detransitioners who were in very similar situations to him and he’s willing to watch/listen to them. Perhaps seeing someone talking about the other side of it might help.

hilariasouzanem · 24/12/2025 11:24

Thanks all. I'll make a list of talking points. We did have a good chat yesterday, which I don't think made any difference, but I'll try again when I next see him. As of now, he's pretty determined, and stubborn too. @BonfireLady can you say any more about what him likely being autistic might mean for how he thinks about things (this thing) and how it would impact how to guide the conversation?

OP posts:
HoppityBun · 24/12/2025 11:57

hilariasouzanem · 24/12/2025 11:24

Thanks all. I'll make a list of talking points. We did have a good chat yesterday, which I don't think made any difference, but I'll try again when I next see him. As of now, he's pretty determined, and stubborn too. @BonfireLady can you say any more about what him likely being autistic might mean for how he thinks about things (this thing) and how it would impact how to guide the conversation?

On the “stubborn” point, I suggest you try avoid a position in discussion where he becomes intransigent. There’s a wealth of experience about changing minds and reason doesn’t do it. So don’t try to change his mind. All you can do is discuss and listen with genuine interest and love. At the same time, it’s possible to ask questions, without making them sound like a challenge.

… but also let him know that the best you will be able to do is think of him as a man pretending to be a woman?

FabulousFryingpan · 24/12/2025 11:59

hilariasouzanem · 22/12/2025 23:58

My young adult nephew has told his parents he wants to transition, and it's come as a huge shock. They have strong feelings about it, understandably, as do I. I'm looking for resources for them to help them navigate this situation. I really feel they need support, ideally from people in the same boat. Are there support groups for parents in this position? There must be a board here on MN but I don't know where to look. Can anyone point me in the right direction please?

FWIW I have dipped in and out of the FWR boards for years, and my views would be considered GC. It's not something we've ever discussed within the family though.

And while I'm here, can anyone help with this question - what happened to the concept of social transitioning before medical transition? Didn't you used to have to do that for a year (two years?) before anyone would consider prescribing hormones? My DN is planning to start on hormones in a few weeks and this is all very new.

Leaving aside my GC position, I really feel he's not mature enough to make this decision. He's technically an adult but very young for his age. He has had a fairly serious mental health issue for several years, which has slowed his development. He has only this year found the right meds that have helped him recover (mostly but not completely) from that and he has some catching up to do.

Any pointers gratefully received. I will either share resources mentioned with SIL or show her this thread.

Mr Menno did an interview (brace yourself, it is 2 hours) with Michael, a Glaswegian detransitioner. It is a great talk, except Michael is gay so that is different to your nephew, but a lot of themother stuff is relevant.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwSS8QoWu0M

BonfireLady · 24/12/2025 16:00

hilariasouzanem · 24/12/2025 11:24

Thanks all. I'll make a list of talking points. We did have a good chat yesterday, which I don't think made any difference, but I'll try again when I next see him. As of now, he's pretty determined, and stubborn too. @BonfireLady can you say any more about what him likely being autistic might mean for how he thinks about things (this thing) and how it would impact how to guide the conversation?

I've seen someone else mention Dr Az's book above, with a lot more detail than I did. Reading his book and/or listening to him speak (e.g. the interview with Andrew Gold) is a good way to digest his understanding of autism meets gender identity.

I appreciate that doesn't directly answer your question but I think it's really good to have as a foundation as, from what I've seen, Dr Az is much stronger in his knowledge of males with autism than females when it comes to this subject. He doesn't seem to have that much interest in females who identify as trans IMO. But his stuff is still helpful to unpick autism from gender identity.

Regarding conversations, I can only speak from my own experience but choice of words has been key. I needed my daughter to know I wasn't challenging her directly.

For example if I had said the TIF equivalent of this... but also let him know that the best you will be able to do is think of him as a man pretending to be a woman?.... that would have lit the touchpaper. The emotive word here would be "pretending" but the overall sentiment would have been received by my daughter as judging her and either the shutters would have come down... or the immediate anger would have kicked in.

Instead, I asked exploratory questions with open curiosity, mostly focusing on how she experienced her body rather than what she thought a man or a woman was. Things like "If I'm understanding it properly, you don't like your breasts. Is that right? <pause and listen> Is it the way they feel do you think?" <pause and listen>.

Also, I did lots of "I wonder....". That's a PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance) technique which is used to reduce the feeling of demand... If something feels like a demand the likely response will be fight or flight - a perception that "I can't answer/do this because it's going to harm me, so I need to resist it and make sure I'm in control of the situation instead". Essentially, stubbornness on acid.

In "classic PDA" (nothing to do with gender identity) that could mean saying "I wonder if you're feeling sad" as an alternative to a direct question like "do you feel sad?" or "I wonder if we need to start putting our shoes on yet to get to the shop before it closes" as an alternative to "get your shoes on now please because the shop is closing".

Effectively, PDA techniques are about giving a feeling of control (because being out of control raises anxiety and increases the likelihood of a fight/flight response) within guardrails that are set by the parent. When I applied this to gender identity, the guardrails were that I wasn't going to let my daughter access anything that caused her harm (I told her this, explaining that this was part of my role as a parent) but I also promised her I would learn everything I could about gender identity, including by listening to people who were trans identified. I asked her if she thought that sounded fair and she said it did. I do appreciate that's easier with a 13 year old than someone older, but the principle could still work. It's a bit like making a "deal" where my daughter knew that I was actively checking in with her and, in many ways, "problem solving" together.

hilariasouzanem · 24/12/2025 16:22

@BonfireLady thanks very much. I'll take some time to absorb your advice

OP posts:
BonfireLady · 24/12/2025 16:33

hilariasouzanem · 24/12/2025 16:22

@BonfireLady thanks very much. I'll take some time to absorb your advice

Not sure if I've explained it as well as I could have done but hopefully it helps. Am currently squirrelled away upstairs wrapping things (very last minute!) and was conscious of this thread so have dipped back in.

I think that's me off MN now for Christmas. Hope everything goes OK.

Bluebootsgreenboots · 24/12/2025 17:15

We are in the same situation @hilariasouzanem. You have managed way faster than us to realise that to them it’s real and that’s the way to approach it with them.
we’ve had rocky times, with complete relationship rupture at one point, lasting for months. We’re slowly re building now, but I feel like I’m acting, pretending it’s all normal and fine, when I can see that he’s hiding his unhappiness now that the initial euphoria has passed.
Even though we’re further along this journey than you, I’m hear to read rather than give advice. I with is had @BonfireLadyon my shoulder when we first heard about it, her approach might have saved us much pain. I’m taking it all on board now, thank you, and will follow up on the suggested resources.

ArabellaSaurus · 24/12/2025 17:27

hilariasouzanem · 23/12/2025 22:04

Oh fuck oh fuck oh fuck.
Are you all saying that all straight TiMs are really AGP? And whatever is happening now is going to get more extreme?

I'm certainly not saying that. None of us here know him, let alone are able to diagnose him.

There is also a cohort - unfortunately probably his precise age group - who were taught by schools, media, the NHS, at formative ages, that if they felt 'gender incongruent' this might mean they were 'trans'.

The cure for that is feminism, plus material reality. IMHO.

hilariasouzanem · 24/12/2025 22:01

Bluebootsgreenboots · 24/12/2025 17:15

We are in the same situation @hilariasouzanem. You have managed way faster than us to realise that to them it’s real and that’s the way to approach it with them.
we’ve had rocky times, with complete relationship rupture at one point, lasting for months. We’re slowly re building now, but I feel like I’m acting, pretending it’s all normal and fine, when I can see that he’s hiding his unhappiness now that the initial euphoria has passed.
Even though we’re further along this journey than you, I’m hear to read rather than give advice. I with is had @BonfireLadyon my shoulder when we first heard about it, her approach might have saved us much pain. I’m taking it all on board now, thank you, and will follow up on the suggested resources.

Solidarity @Bluebootsgreenboots Flowers

OP posts:
hilariasouzanem · 28/12/2025 22:22

BonfireLady · 24/12/2025 16:00

I've seen someone else mention Dr Az's book above, with a lot more detail than I did. Reading his book and/or listening to him speak (e.g. the interview with Andrew Gold) is a good way to digest his understanding of autism meets gender identity.

I appreciate that doesn't directly answer your question but I think it's really good to have as a foundation as, from what I've seen, Dr Az is much stronger in his knowledge of males with autism than females when it comes to this subject. He doesn't seem to have that much interest in females who identify as trans IMO. But his stuff is still helpful to unpick autism from gender identity.

Regarding conversations, I can only speak from my own experience but choice of words has been key. I needed my daughter to know I wasn't challenging her directly.

For example if I had said the TIF equivalent of this... but also let him know that the best you will be able to do is think of him as a man pretending to be a woman?.... that would have lit the touchpaper. The emotive word here would be "pretending" but the overall sentiment would have been received by my daughter as judging her and either the shutters would have come down... or the immediate anger would have kicked in.

Instead, I asked exploratory questions with open curiosity, mostly focusing on how she experienced her body rather than what she thought a man or a woman was. Things like "If I'm understanding it properly, you don't like your breasts. Is that right? <pause and listen> Is it the way they feel do you think?" <pause and listen>.

Also, I did lots of "I wonder....". That's a PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance) technique which is used to reduce the feeling of demand... If something feels like a demand the likely response will be fight or flight - a perception that "I can't answer/do this because it's going to harm me, so I need to resist it and make sure I'm in control of the situation instead". Essentially, stubbornness on acid.

In "classic PDA" (nothing to do with gender identity) that could mean saying "I wonder if you're feeling sad" as an alternative to a direct question like "do you feel sad?" or "I wonder if we need to start putting our shoes on yet to get to the shop before it closes" as an alternative to "get your shoes on now please because the shop is closing".

Effectively, PDA techniques are about giving a feeling of control (because being out of control raises anxiety and increases the likelihood of a fight/flight response) within guardrails that are set by the parent. When I applied this to gender identity, the guardrails were that I wasn't going to let my daughter access anything that caused her harm (I told her this, explaining that this was part of my role as a parent) but I also promised her I would learn everything I could about gender identity, including by listening to people who were trans identified. I asked her if she thought that sounded fair and she said it did. I do appreciate that's easier with a 13 year old than someone older, but the principle could still work. It's a bit like making a "deal" where my daughter knew that I was actively checking in with her and, in many ways, "problem solving" together.

This is such a helpful, thoughtful post @BonfireLady, I so appreciate it. I'm having trouble still figuring out what to say without wrecking things, though, as I feel I have to be honest. I don't want him saying in five years time, 'why didn't anyone say anything? Why didn't anyone warn me?' And it feels so lacking in integrity to play along and 'be kind'. This is incredibly challenging. Fortunately I have time to think as the family is in Scotland for Hogmanay.

OP posts:
hilariasouzanem · 28/12/2025 22:23

Can anyone tell me what the ICD is please? It's mentioned a couple of times upthread

OP posts:
NotAtMyAge · 28/12/2025 23:00

hilariasouzanem · 28/12/2025 22:23

Can anyone tell me what the ICD is please? It's mentioned a couple of times upthread

The International Classification of Diseases. https://icd.who.int/en/

ICD-11

https://icd.who.int/en

ArabellaSaurus · 28/12/2025 23:11

'Gender incongruence' is under section 17, Conditions related to sexual health.

https://icd.who.int/browse/2025-01/mms/en

ICD-11 for Mortality and Morbidity Statistics

https://icd.who.int/browse/2025-01/mms/en

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