Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Left Out: the political radicalisation of young women - and the silence surrounding it

30 replies

IwantToRetire · 21/12/2025 20:11

Well if this report is accurate, not many young women will be joining the dinosaurs on FWR.

Are the feminist politics of FWR heading for extinction?

Hmm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002ntqc

BBC Radio 4 - Currently, Left Out: the political radicalisation of young women - and the silence surrounding it

A look at the leftwards move of young women and why media and politicians are ignoring it

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002ntqc

OP posts:
Abhannmor · 21/12/2025 20:44

Hmm. I listened to it. But young women swinging left doesn't preclude young women being sex realists , surely? There must be a cohort of them out there.

1984Now · 21/12/2025 20:50

When the left are the most convincing they're the most virtuous, the most welcoming, the least discriminatory, the most empathetic, then this will be highly appealing.
Too bad the opposite is true.

BendoftheBeginning · 21/12/2025 20:53

Meh, I’m still left but I’m also a sex realist. I’m not going to be redefined just because I’m not a TRA.

IwantToRetire · 21/12/2025 21:11

Abhannmor · 21/12/2025 20:44

Hmm. I listened to it. But young women swinging left doesn't preclude young women being sex realists , surely? There must be a cohort of them out there.

But the programme made the point that young women seemed to think the Green Party was the one most likely to help them as young women combat the sexism and violence of young men!

And if they do believe that, it is very confusing to understand how they could think that?

OP posts:
ThePenguinIsDrunk · 21/12/2025 22:08

Haven't listened yet but will say I know plenty of younger GC and sex realist women who are left leaning. Remember that younger women will grow into middle-aged and older women too and I think the experience of having children and how they are treated in the workplace and life will have an impact on their views. I would also query how the women were selected for this programme.

fabricstash · 21/12/2025 23:13

I know a fair few left leaning young women and they are left and maybe »be kind » but they are sex realists

fromorbit · 22/12/2025 07:51

A lot of young women are be kind types.

Will they continue to think that forever? People change.

More to the point most people do not agree with the hardline gender position.

How many of those young women think that men in dresses belong in women's sport?

Or rapist violent men in dresses belong in women's prison?

They are not voting Green over Trans rights it is because they don't like Starmer and fear Farage. They also are reacting to the rightward turn amongst young men.

Also later in life after running into a bunch of sexist leftists and considering the classic immigration dilemma that immigration poses for feminists they may reconsider.

Abhannmor · 22/12/2025 08:18

IwantToRetire · 21/12/2025 21:11

But the programme made the point that young women seemed to think the Green Party was the one most likely to help them as young women combat the sexism and violence of young men!

And if they do believe that, it is very confusing to understand how they could think that?

Like @ThePenguinIsDrunk I took wonder how these young women were selected by the programme. It works in reverse too. My friend from Stoke on Trent says the journalists always seem to zero in on glowering blokes in grey tracksuits for a soundbite. Nobody has ever polled her or asked her a question.

Presumably they only go there because it has the highest Leave vote for Brexit? As for the Greens : there's many a slip twixt cup and lip. I wonder if , in three years time , we will see the Caerphilly effect taking hold. That is , people work out the best way to stop Farage and vote accordingly. Assuming he hasn't already been destroyed by his anti-Semitism and his too close association with the Madman Across the Water.

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 22/12/2025 08:22

I'm left leaning. It certainly doesn't preclude me from knowing what a woman is.

nicepotoftea · 22/12/2025 08:47

Depends how you define 'left wing'

Looking at the approach to prostitution, surrogacy and gender identity in some 'progressive' circles, it's as though women's rights have been hived off and different rules apply. Suddenly any kind of left wing analysis of class rights is abandoned and the market and capitalism are king. But if you are a young woman, you can kid yourself for a while that you don't rely on sex specific rights. Plus ca change.

I think the Green Party and Reform both sell fantasy politics, but just different flavours. At some point you have to grow up.

Another2Cats · 22/12/2025 09:54

For some context, Gaby Hinscliffe (Guardian columnist) interviewed young women supported by the Young Women's Trust (a charity that helps young women on low pay or unemployed to find better jobs), other young women who attended this year's Green Party Conference (so already pretty bought in to the Green Party) and sixth formers from Bristol (a city that she described as "diverse and left leaning").

She spoke to a researcher who had been doing some polling of young people, who said that while there was a difference in right/left leaning among young people it was really only a matter of degree. She said:

"We asked young people to place themselves on a scale of 1 to 10 from left to right. Most of men and women put themselves in the centre, which I always find quite important to point out.

We did see slight divergences on the left and right. So young men put themselves on the left side of the spectrum 13% of the time whereas young women put themselves 20% of the time. So a bit more left leaning among women.

And on the right it was opposite, young men put themselves there 26% of the time and only 15% of the women did."

Gaby Hinscliffe then asked about which specific issues were young people mostly concerned about when it came to voting. The reply was that the top five were:

"For young men, inflation & cost of living is top then healthcare, crime, housing affordability and then immigration & asylum.

Whereas for young women it is healthcare, inflation & cost of living, housing affodability, mental health and then crime."

She then interviewed Prof Rosie Campbell who is Professor of Politics at Kings College London and asked if this left/right split was new.

"In the period that we've had good data - in the immediate aftermath of the Second World War, women were slightly more likely to vote for the Conservatives than men and then, by the 1970s, that gap largely disappeared.

But when we got to the 2017 election the traditional gap reversed and more women voted Labour and more men voted Conservative. That was also true in 2019.

2024 was a little bit different"

According to Gaby Hinscliffe, the British Electoral Study showed that there was a shift at the last election. Although, overall, more women voted for the main parties than men did around a quarter of women aged 18-25 voted Green, twice as many as young men. She asked Prof Campbell what was driving that change?

"My suspicion is, although it has only been happening very recently so it's hard to get good quality data, is that the trends that are pushing young men to the right might equally be pushing young women to the left."

Is it young men driving that or is it young women?

"If we look at the last election, men overall were more likely to support Reform but when we look inside the generations, young women were significantly more likely to support Green than older women. So I do think that we pay a lot of attention to young men but actually it might be young women that are moving faster."

Another factor was the way that young people get there political content - typically for young people that's through social media. The algorithms these platforms use to push content into people's feeds are geared to give people more of what they seem to like. If young men and young women are living in separate online worlds, could that explain why they're moving apart in real life?

She then interviewed Zarah Sultana, the MP for Coventry South (who runs a new party with Jeremy Corbyn), who explained how important it was to her to have such a large social media platform to speak directly to young women to get points over to them.

She also interviewed Carla Denyer, Green MP for Bristol, who spoke about misogyny and VAWG being a big driver for young women wanting to vote Green.

She then got on to interviewing some individual young women and none of them mentioned trans issues. There was a lot more emphasis on the Middle East.

AreYouSureAskedNaomi · 22/12/2025 13:13

DD is mid teens, left leaning and gender critical it could be because of ranty, terfy me. She has friends and peers in different groups (school, sport etc.) with wildly varying political leanings and she says none of them get gender ideology. No transidentified kids in her year in high school, a handful in the older years.

PaterPower · 22/12/2025 15:08

IwantToRetire · 21/12/2025 21:11

But the programme made the point that young women seemed to think the Green Party was the one most likely to help them as young women combat the sexism and violence of young men!

And if they do believe that, it is very confusing to understand how they could think that?

I’d suggest it’s because they’ve not read up on the party’s stance on their rights (or rather the party’s stance on the supremacy of TiMs rights over women).

IwantToRetire · 22/12/2025 16:54

No part of the programme talk about how young women feel about trans issues.

The point I was making was that young women's fear of male violence and sexism was mentioned and then they apparently support a PP where the male leader has made strange comments about women's breasts etc.

And in the instance of Bristol, the majority Green Party have tried to silence women.

Thanks to @Another2Cats for the detailed post.

My comment was more flippant, but suspect it is that however much those of us on FWR focus on trans issues, it just is NOT an issue many young women think about.

And whilst I suspect some will change their attitudes later in life, it does make me wonder how after more that a decade of it being an issue, it just does not resonate with younger women.

OP posts:
Heggettypeg · 22/12/2025 17:29

Another2Cats · 22/12/2025 09:54

For some context, Gaby Hinscliffe (Guardian columnist) interviewed young women supported by the Young Women's Trust (a charity that helps young women on low pay or unemployed to find better jobs), other young women who attended this year's Green Party Conference (so already pretty bought in to the Green Party) and sixth formers from Bristol (a city that she described as "diverse and left leaning").

She spoke to a researcher who had been doing some polling of young people, who said that while there was a difference in right/left leaning among young people it was really only a matter of degree. She said:

"We asked young people to place themselves on a scale of 1 to 10 from left to right. Most of men and women put themselves in the centre, which I always find quite important to point out.

We did see slight divergences on the left and right. So young men put themselves on the left side of the spectrum 13% of the time whereas young women put themselves 20% of the time. So a bit more left leaning among women.

And on the right it was opposite, young men put themselves there 26% of the time and only 15% of the women did."

Gaby Hinscliffe then asked about which specific issues were young people mostly concerned about when it came to voting. The reply was that the top five were:

"For young men, inflation & cost of living is top then healthcare, crime, housing affordability and then immigration & asylum.

Whereas for young women it is healthcare, inflation & cost of living, housing affodability, mental health and then crime."

She then interviewed Prof Rosie Campbell who is Professor of Politics at Kings College London and asked if this left/right split was new.

"In the period that we've had good data - in the immediate aftermath of the Second World War, women were slightly more likely to vote for the Conservatives than men and then, by the 1970s, that gap largely disappeared.

But when we got to the 2017 election the traditional gap reversed and more women voted Labour and more men voted Conservative. That was also true in 2019.

2024 was a little bit different"

According to Gaby Hinscliffe, the British Electoral Study showed that there was a shift at the last election. Although, overall, more women voted for the main parties than men did around a quarter of women aged 18-25 voted Green, twice as many as young men. She asked Prof Campbell what was driving that change?

"My suspicion is, although it has only been happening very recently so it's hard to get good quality data, is that the trends that are pushing young men to the right might equally be pushing young women to the left."

Is it young men driving that or is it young women?

"If we look at the last election, men overall were more likely to support Reform but when we look inside the generations, young women were significantly more likely to support Green than older women. So I do think that we pay a lot of attention to young men but actually it might be young women that are moving faster."

Another factor was the way that young people get there political content - typically for young people that's through social media. The algorithms these platforms use to push content into people's feeds are geared to give people more of what they seem to like. If young men and young women are living in separate online worlds, could that explain why they're moving apart in real life?

She then interviewed Zarah Sultana, the MP for Coventry South (who runs a new party with Jeremy Corbyn), who explained how important it was to her to have such a large social media platform to speak directly to young women to get points over to them.

She also interviewed Carla Denyer, Green MP for Bristol, who spoke about misogyny and VAWG being a big driver for young women wanting to vote Green.

She then got on to interviewing some individual young women and none of them mentioned trans issues. There was a lot more emphasis on the Middle East.

What jumped out at me from this is that although young women are supporting the Greens, not one of their stated top issues (at any rate among Gaby's interviewees) was to do with the environment. Not climate change or pollution or other species under threat etc.

WarmLight · 05/01/2026 08:58

I didn't have time to.listen that's the first thing the messages need to be short for many women to be able to dip in. So maybe that's a factor.
But I agree that the whole definition of a woman thing isn't a huge issue for many women in that we co existed with non confirming people long before the extreme right co opted the conversation. It's an important discussion but has been used by bad actors to divide.
Why isn't politics a separate category on Mumsnet? All the stuff about support for women images of women the right wing instructing women to ' have more babies' etc is all political. Don't we get to talk about politics properly on here? Our views on politics are being sought. There's a survey below.

RedToothBrush · 05/01/2026 09:00

How many women find feminism when they have children?

Given less women are having children and the age women have children at is shifting you'd EXPECT to see some shifting on this, which will also settle down in a few years.

nicepotoftea · 05/01/2026 09:44

WarmLight · 05/01/2026 08:58

I didn't have time to.listen that's the first thing the messages need to be short for many women to be able to dip in. So maybe that's a factor.
But I agree that the whole definition of a woman thing isn't a huge issue for many women in that we co existed with non confirming people long before the extreme right co opted the conversation. It's an important discussion but has been used by bad actors to divide.
Why isn't politics a separate category on Mumsnet? All the stuff about support for women images of women the right wing instructing women to ' have more babies' etc is all political. Don't we get to talk about politics properly on here? Our views on politics are being sought. There's a survey below.

But I agree that the whole definition of a woman thing isn't a huge issue for many women in that we co existed with non confirming people long before the extreme right co opted the conversation

I’m not clear what you mean here. Women who are gender non conforming experience discrimination because of their sex.

Tadpolesinponds · 05/01/2026 11:23

It's scary that no-one is mentioning the most important problem of our times (and it's a problem that is never going to go away) - climate change.

nicepotoftea · 05/01/2026 11:38

Tadpolesinponds · 05/01/2026 11:23

It's scary that no-one is mentioning the most important problem of our times (and it's a problem that is never going to go away) - climate change.

Unfortunately the Green Party have rather abandoned any claims to evidence based policies.

If you want people to 'believe the science', you have to show a passing interest in it yourself.

SorryAuntLydia · 05/01/2026 11:55

My teen DD and her friends (multicultural state school kids) are ‘done’ with transgenderism and identity politics. They say it’s a millennial thing. They think trans identities are ‘weird’ and 100% don’t want to share their spaces.
politically, they are very fired up about women’s issues wrt things like cse, grooming gangs, surrogacy, prostitution, global women’s rights. They also talk a lot about the inequalities of attitudes towards women’s sexual behaviour and men’s.

My DS is at a very sporty university where he says there’s the usual TWAW statements and a lot of ‘be kind’. But he tells me that vanishingly few students are interested or engaged in any activism and the sports societies quietly manoeuvre to retain women’s teams without getting into any trouble. Even the rugby boys are back to putting on dresses for rag week jokes without anyone getting het up about identities.

i think Gen Z will be okay.

1984Now · 05/01/2026 12:20

SorryAuntLydia · 05/01/2026 11:55

My teen DD and her friends (multicultural state school kids) are ‘done’ with transgenderism and identity politics. They say it’s a millennial thing. They think trans identities are ‘weird’ and 100% don’t want to share their spaces.
politically, they are very fired up about women’s issues wrt things like cse, grooming gangs, surrogacy, prostitution, global women’s rights. They also talk a lot about the inequalities of attitudes towards women’s sexual behaviour and men’s.

My DS is at a very sporty university where he says there’s the usual TWAW statements and a lot of ‘be kind’. But he tells me that vanishingly few students are interested or engaged in any activism and the sports societies quietly manoeuvre to retain women’s teams without getting into any trouble. Even the rugby boys are back to putting on dresses for rag week jokes without anyone getting het up about identities.

i think Gen Z will be okay.

I was reading on the other thread about the parent taking kids' school to task for mixed toilets/showers, that despite that teachers/management having no issue with the policy, the kids are effectively self-policing correct spaces, ie the boys making way for the girls.
Now you say Gen Z are moving wholly past it.
I find it totally amazing the kids are doing what the adults should all along, being sensitive towards each other (boys acknowledging girls' needs/social embarrassment), and now en masse treating the whole phenomenon as a joke, an embarrassment, something disturbing and unwanted.
Yet the adults carry on oblivious.
Another major example of the adults letting down the kids.
If Gen Z absolutely pivot away, Gen X and Boomers hugely weary already, this just leaves Millennials as the last group in the snare of this ideology, having grown up and into their adult life fully dosed on the Kool Aid.
Will this group maintain their radicalisation, or will they also move to reconsidering everything as the phenomenon flounders with every other age group?

SidewaysOtter · 05/01/2026 12:41

SorryAuntLydia · 05/01/2026 11:55

My teen DD and her friends (multicultural state school kids) are ‘done’ with transgenderism and identity politics. They say it’s a millennial thing. They think trans identities are ‘weird’ and 100% don’t want to share their spaces.
politically, they are very fired up about women’s issues wrt things like cse, grooming gangs, surrogacy, prostitution, global women’s rights. They also talk a lot about the inequalities of attitudes towards women’s sexual behaviour and men’s.

My DS is at a very sporty university where he says there’s the usual TWAW statements and a lot of ‘be kind’. But he tells me that vanishingly few students are interested or engaged in any activism and the sports societies quietly manoeuvre to retain women’s teams without getting into any trouble. Even the rugby boys are back to putting on dresses for rag week jokes without anyone getting het up about identities.

i think Gen Z will be okay.

That ties in with other mothers I've seen posting here saying the same thing. These things go in cycles and I've long since thought that the thing that will be the end of the 'young' end of gender ideology (the other being older men with fetishes and regular trips to Malaga) will be it becoming outdated and uncool.

SorryAuntLydia · 05/01/2026 12:42

1984Now · 05/01/2026 12:20

I was reading on the other thread about the parent taking kids' school to task for mixed toilets/showers, that despite that teachers/management having no issue with the policy, the kids are effectively self-policing correct spaces, ie the boys making way for the girls.
Now you say Gen Z are moving wholly past it.
I find it totally amazing the kids are doing what the adults should all along, being sensitive towards each other (boys acknowledging girls' needs/social embarrassment), and now en masse treating the whole phenomenon as a joke, an embarrassment, something disturbing and unwanted.
Yet the adults carry on oblivious.
Another major example of the adults letting down the kids.
If Gen Z absolutely pivot away, Gen X and Boomers hugely weary already, this just leaves Millennials as the last group in the snare of this ideology, having grown up and into their adult life fully dosed on the Kool Aid.
Will this group maintain their radicalisation, or will they also move to reconsidering everything as the phenomenon flounders with every other age group?

Edited

Sadly, I suspect the millennials will dig their heels in on this. My relatives of that generation are wholly paid up members of the omnicause who genuinely appear to think that everyone agrees with them. I also work with a number of that generation who treat dissenters as ‘very bad people’ and I am forced to be very careful in what I say. I am just grateful my kids join me in rolling our eyes behind their backs.

1984Now · 05/01/2026 12:46

SorryAuntLydia · 05/01/2026 12:42

Sadly, I suspect the millennials will dig their heels in on this. My relatives of that generation are wholly paid up members of the omnicause who genuinely appear to think that everyone agrees with them. I also work with a number of that generation who treat dissenters as ‘very bad people’ and I am forced to be very careful in what I say. I am just grateful my kids join me in rolling our eyes behind their backs.

Aren't the Millennials the ones who are starting to dominate law, medicine, social sciences, academia, politics even?
They're the ones who are starting to impose themselves on policy?
Seeing themselves akin to the early Christian clique rebelling against Roman orthodoxy?
Look how far Paul got...