Times article suggesting Rayner is a shoo-in for PM within months - please god no

[teawamutu]

Hopefully this link will work:
https://www.thetimes.com/article/27184a3f-e513-49a6-871d-bc8c71fa7804?shareToken=1740daa659156e3945fd8e025dbf6d22

She signed every anti-women motion. She said she'd save a bench in the Commons for Liam/’Lily' fucking Madigan. She's pointlessly fighty and I'd bet perfectly happy to try to change the Equality Act. At the very least she'd allow FWS to be undermined.

Talk me down and explain why this either won't happen or won't be a disaster, wise FWRers, please!

When JFK was Prez, it seems to me he, and his family, did pretty much whatever they wanted.

As someone of no faith, and no interest in them, I am amazed at the sweeping generalisation made about a faith that in fact has any number of strands, just as Christianity.

Nine times out of ten is has nothing to do with the faith but the men who have collaborated to take it over and use it to subjugate women.

Just as if you followed the Knesset hearings currently happening in Israel on the exploitation of women. You could from that make sweeping statements about Judaism and women. Not helped by a senior minister storming into the hearing because he had been asked to appear and told them the hearing should be cancelled as it reflected negatively on the police.

Meanwhile, Reform are having a rally in Birmingham tomorrow afternoon and promising "special guests". Make of that what you will.

...fuck it, we're going to get Lammy, aren't we?

Oh god, just no.

Turns out to be Starmers greatest move - make a complete bollocks of leading the country, but get everyone to dread who will be next.

At least with the tories, we always had hope that the next PM might be an improvement.

Lammy is likely to stand he is ambitious, but as to him winning well I think he has better chance than some others but not enough to win.

Rayner has a huge starting advantage. The people who voted for Lucy Powell would definitely back Rayner.

However it is not impossible that in a contest she is out manoeuvred by some others. It will be tough though if you followed the deputy leader contest even though others out debated her on occasion it didn't make a difference in the end.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Labour_Party_deputy_leadership_election

I think the only one who might stop Rayner is Miliband if he stands.

I really, really couldn't care less what her upbringing was. Only care about any politician's ability to govern.

Cant's stand Rayner.

Whatever the case, it doesn't make the reach for that word acceptable.

I think any UK national leader should be in full command of the English language and be sophisticated in their use of it (this being indicative of an appropriate level of intellect). And too strong a regional accent is a negative as far as I'm concerned ( as would be too 'posh' - such as Jacob Rees Mog). Fairly neutral is best if you want to be clearly understood and have broad appeal.

Yes she's done extremely well in life considering her start, but there are plenty of others who that can also be said of. I always get the impression that she is largely where she is because she's tokenistic - because she ticks the right diversity and inclusion boxes. I can well imagine her being a good union leader - but even then you need to have a certain level of erudition in that role these days.

A leader with some genuine gravitas is required - especially on the world stage. Angela Raynor is not it.

She just doesn’t come across as a serious politician - the video she put out of her having her hair done so she’s photo ready. It seems out of touch? But also it’s always a fight to get people not to discuss a female politicians ‘look’ and she really leans into it - I don’t feel it’s a way to take hold of the narrative though. It feels like she is trying to make herself stand out by that focus

there are much better women in the Labour Party who would make a better leader than her. Sadly there are very few people - male or female- in the senior Labour Party that would make a good leader!!

Colonel Alistair Scott Carns DSO OBE MC was awarded the Military Cross in 2011 after service in Afghanistan. He was about to be promoted to Brigadier but instead left the army to stand as a Labour candidate in 2024. He climbed Everest last year while a government minister. Why haven't I heard of him before?

I like it that Rayner clearly enjoys her clothes and that she's resisted the boxy business suit path. It shows a bit of independence and tenacity in my view. My objections to Rayner are a) that she has pandered to men who want to use women's spaces and b) she has a reckless streak which I fear, if unchecked, could bring us all down with her.

It’s not unusual for female politicians to be very conscious about their wardrobe - see Angela merkel. It is a good way to project an image. However rayner seems to project that she’s edgy and different but also ‘not like us’ - expensive dye job and cut isn’t down to earth!!

agree that she wouldn’t last long as PM and this little backstabbing show behind closed doors by various cabinet members is quite unedifying

i’m not a massive Keir Starmer fan but I would like to see a PM actually see out a term! The idea that we are back again talking about the internal politics of the governing party rather than the issues facing this country is very depressing

I don't mind Rayner on a personal level. There are so few people in politics with a personality. She's like a character out of Corrie, and she knows that and plays up to it. I'm sure she's tremendous fun to go out for drinks with.

The proposition of Rayner as PM makes me think she'd be a female Boris. I'm sure she wouldn't like the comparison, but I think she's got similar strengths and weaknesses - natural charisma, a good campaigner, strong willed enough to break a deadlock... but we also knew about Boris that there would be scandals, he'd make loads of mistakes, he had no attention to detail. The question is whether the strengths outweigh the weaknesses.

There's no ideal candidate, it's just a matter of being clear sighted about what's on offer. Starmer's great strengths were supposed to be boring bureaucratic competence and high ethical standards, and look how that worked out.

Yes she actually changed my view in the week where she challenged on the ISC and managed to get other MPs to fall behind her. That takes political astuteness and leadership.

My concerns are more about economic policy and unfortunately the gender stuff but as a politician she’s pretty strong.

Why haven’t you heard of him? Because he’s been too busy climbing Everest to do his job?

Ok, it is ‘an important doctrine for many Muslims’ if you prefer.

The Muslims raising concerns say it is heavily emphasised in many teachings.

You are assuming that I am coming at this from a place of prejudice and an anti Muslim, but I really am not. In reality, I am listening to people, particularly Muslims and those who have lived through the takeover of their country by the more extreme Muslims. Even Baroness Falkner recently alluded to the wider issues she can see.

Someone summed up the key ways that Islam is different to other religions which made a lot of sense about the issues. It is not just religion, it is a legal, social and even military framework which seems to explain a lot of things. Some adherents are obviously VERY militant in their approach and I think it is an issue with the government, not me, viewing them as an homogeneous group (the proposed definition of Islamophobia will apply to all Muslims for example) and the extremists are using the moderates as ‘cover’ for gaining political power.

Shabana Mahmood has said that her faith is very important to her. It drove her decision to vote against the assisted suicide bill.

She says sensible things about immigration but has voted against stricter controls and stronger enforcement of immigration laws.

She abstained in the vote on the proscription of Palestine Action but is taking a lot of pressure from her pro Palestine Muslim constituents to support the pro Pal movement and demands more. She lost a large chunk of votes in her constituency as a pro-Pal Muslim candidate stood against her.

That was the 1960s, fortunately we've moved on from condemning entire groups of people as if they were all incapable of independent thought or opinion.

You seem to be putting words in my mouth as I have not said that at all. I have pointed out a very important tenet of a faith followed by our Home Secretary and suggested that a) if she follows the various important principles, she will have a conflict of interest with the best interests of the country and ALL it’s constituents and b) her presence and well known faith might well have a chilling effect on others round her discussing important issues and conflicts.

For example, the governments apparent willingness to ignore animal welfare laws and allow religious exemptions for non stun slaughter which has expanded to millions of animals per year.

For example, Keir’s mission to introduce a definition of Islamophobia a which will harm free speech. And his refusal to support any kind of ban on first cousin marriage.

I quite like her as a politician but I’m not sure she’s in a position to effectively balance the interests of all of us.

J.K. Rowling

Add Keir Starmer's newfound concern for victims of Peter Mandelson's bestie to his backflip on whether women can have penises and his U-turn on the Rotherham grooming gangs enquiry. Starmer is indifferent to harm done to girls and women unless it threatens his career. #StarmerOut

Julie Bindel
Yep

J.K. Rowling

Call me wildly idealistic, but I like to think we'll one day have a PM who gives a shit about protecting the rights and safety of girls and women.

Trouble is, I keep thinking of Rosie Duffield's estimate that 30 to 40 Labour MPs agreed with her but, except for Tonia Antoniazzi, none would say so.

Some of the Blue Labour caucus have been cautiously sticking their necks out and saying women exist, but their preferred leadership candidate is Shabana Mahmood, who I don't believe could get close to the 81 nominations she needs to even be a candidate.

Before that tax scandal supposedly according to Matthew Torbs, Rayner wasn't interested due to that lord Ashcroft probing etc and the talk of leadership challenges was just internal stirring and she would only go for it of there was a massive push.

Now with the tax issues she's put for another election cycle at least.

Times Radio: Patrick Maguire giving his roundup, Rosie Duffield saying Starmer has a woman problem, Jess Asato saying Keir must stay and he definitely doesn't have a woman problem.

I know Jess slightly from years back, and I rate her as one of the better Labour MPs, so it gives me no pleasure to say she should be ashamed of herself for coming out with this flapdoodle.

i’m not a massive Keir Starmer fan but I would like to see a PM actually see out a term! The idea that we are back again talking about the internal politics of the governing party rather than the issues facing this country is very depressing

This is exactly where I’m at. And in feeling this way, I completely disagree with JK and Bindel. As far as I see, none of the politicians give a shit about women, including many of the female politicians. Or, at least, give enough of a shit to stand up to men of all stripes. But most Labour politicians don’t. Or Lib Dem’s or Greens and Tories, likewise don’t care about women but for slightly different reasons.

Mainly I’m so sick of fucking politicians enacting their individual power plays that undermine the running of this country. This runs across all parties but currently see Anas Sarwar… ffs. Starmer has listened to poor advice, yes. However, I do think he could be made to push back against the gender ideologists because he’s pragmatic if he could get effective advisors.

I’d vote for baroness Falkner if she was running. She is a rare person who clearly cares about girls and women.

... I always get the impression that she is largely where she is because she's tokenistic - because she ticks the right diversity and inclusion boxes. I can well imagine her being a good union leader - but even then you need to have a certain level of erudition in that role these days.

I agree, I think she got a job and became a Union Rep, her raise to the top wasn't all her own work, the Union is like a career path, she said the right thing at the right time and she got promoted. That why she has so much union support and why she's their favourite to be the next leader.

I find the idea of her being PM worrisome, Union Reps think in sound bites and everything has to be run past the central committee, the PM of a modern country that's in deep economic trouble needs to be better than that.

No. He is doing very well in New York. No way he would come back to deal with a bunch of muppets. Nor would he want to take on the unions who were entirely responsible for Ed getting ? one more vote than he did. I think it was just one vote, I could be misremembering. I cried when John Smith died and was close to it when we got landed with Ed instead of David.

Listening to the Scottish Labour leader - such opportunism

the best thing for all of us is for the government to get a handle on the economy and make some hard decisions

i can’t see how a change in PM will facilitate this (perhaps a change in chancellor?) as there isn’t anyone who seems reasonable (well none of the lot who are currently rubbing their hands together anyway). Things are pretty dire when I wasn’t completely horrified when someone suggested Ed milliband 🙄

I think of Rayner as an idiot but not a fool. I think that politically, she's savvier than she's given credit for. For example, I actually think she'd get on fine with Trump. But I can't get past the belief that she'd prioritise the rights of men who identify as women. And, as has been pointed out, even if she's privately rowed back from believing TWAW, I think she's too closely connected to Unison, to ever say so out loud.