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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Times article suggesting Rayner is a shoo-in for PM within months - please god no

227 replies

teawamutu · 07/12/2025 10:35

Hopefully this link will work:
https://www.thetimes.com/article/27184a3f-e513-49a6-871d-bc8c71fa7804?shareToken=1740daa659156e3945fd8e025dbf6d22

She signed every anti-women motion. She said she'd save a bench in the Commons for Liam/’Lily' fucking Madigan. She's pointlessly fighty and I'd bet perfectly happy to try to change the Equality Act. At the very least she'd allow FWS to be undermined.

Talk me down and explain why this either won't happen or won't be a disaster, wise FWRers, please!

Angela Rayner’s next move has the Labour Party on tenterhooks

A leadership contest is inevitable. Sir Keir Starmer’s former deputy is most likely to succeed him — if she wants the job

https://www.thetimes.com/article/27184a3f-e513-49a6-871d-bc8c71fa7804?shareToken=1740daa659156e3945fd8e025dbf6d22

OP posts:
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HappyFace2025 · 08/02/2026 13:33

Shortshriftandlethal · 08/02/2026 13:29

What would appall you about Mahmood?

She's serious, competent, articulate and grasps the issues that need to be tackled and which matter to voters.

Edited

See the post I replied to from @JustSomeWaferThinHam who explains my reservations very well indeed.

Shortshriftandlethal · 08/02/2026 13:34

Abhannmor · 08/02/2026 11:27

Wasn't Streeting in that What'sApp chat set up to boot GC members from the Party? I'd imagine a lot of MPs would support him , after all many were selected by McSweeney and are basically Tory lite , like the lad himself.
On the other hand ....he was close to Mandelson so the membership won't like him. They are usually well to the left of the leadership. Not especially difficult now I grant you....

Rather than judging people on the basis of whether we would classify them as 'Left' or 'Right' surely it would be best to have someone who is able to address the issues that are causing most societal friction ( and causing people to move towards 'Reform') and the breakdown in confidence that the public feels towards elected representatives - rather than someone who simply toes a particular ideological line?

Shortshriftandlethal · 08/02/2026 13:37

HappyFace2025 · 08/02/2026 13:33

See the post I replied to from @JustSomeWaferThinHam who explains my reservations very well indeed.

Yet she has sought to proscribe radical islamist groups and protect the rights of jewish, people to be free from prejudice and attack, for example. She doesn't wear a hijab; she's educated and can think critically; and she understands and embraces British values.

Shortshriftandlethal · 08/02/2026 13:40

RoyalCorgi · 08/02/2026 12:55

She did sign it, she just signed it later than the others. See the second link in my previous post.

She was also chairing that leadership hustings during which which she said that men with trans identities should be free to go to the prison that most suits their gender identity:

"In February 2020, during the Labour leadership campaign, Lisa Nandy stated that "self-identifying is a really, really important part of the right of people to say - I know better than a psychiatric assessment who I am". She indicated that trans women (born male) should be accommodated in women's prisons based on their gender identity"

teawamutu · 08/02/2026 13:52

Shortshriftandlethal · 08/02/2026 13:40

She was also chairing that leadership hustings during which which she said that men with trans identities should be free to go to the prison that most suits their gender identity:

"In February 2020, during the Labour leadership campaign, Lisa Nandy stated that "self-identifying is a really, really important part of the right of people to say - I know better than a psychiatric assessment who I am". She indicated that trans women (born male) should be accommodated in women's prisons based on their gender identity"

Edited

Is she still bleating on about her one (alleged) trans constituent whose feelings of sadness about people not wanting to play along with his fantasy are more important than the protections of every actual woman and girl in the country (paraphrasing, obvs)?

OP posts:
Locutus2000 · 08/02/2026 14:11

JustSomeWaferThinHam · 08/02/2026 11:13

Streeting is my least worst option (agree 100% about Rayner OP) but despite her saying the right things atm, I remain worried about Mahmoods potential conflict of interest on a number of issues.

She is a practising Muslim and the doctrine is that a Muslim’s first priority is to other Muslims.

Islam is not only a religious doctrine but also a legal, social and military framework. There are important areas where the best interests of the country do not correspond with Islamic principles. It would be down to her discretion vs her religious practice as to how she balances the two. Which is risky imo.

My god, do you actually believe this tripe?

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 08/02/2026 14:17

On the whole, from experience, looking at ministers from all parties in the last five years - how well do they generally balance impartiality and public duty in their role and exertion of their power on the country with their own personal hobby horses and agendas?

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 08/02/2026 14:47

Locutus2000 · 08/02/2026 14:11

My god, do you actually believe this tripe?

What makes you think it's tripe, besides the usual Omnicause, racist, racist, racist of course.

NoelEdmondsHairGel · 08/02/2026 14:51

Could you imagine Angela Raynor on the world stage? Navigating the intricacies of Trump, China, Russia?? She just doesn’t have the diplomatic skill set. At all.

Shortshriftandlethal · 08/02/2026 15:18

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 08/02/2026 14:47

What makes you think it's tripe, besides the usual Omnicause, racist, racist, racist of course.

Shabana Mahmood is certainly not an Islamist. You only have to look at her conduct and her actions in office to judge her, in my view. Yes, she has a religious faith, as do Christians, observant Jews, Sikhs, Hindus etc, and this may well effect her vote on matters such as 'Assisted Suicide' and on other issues which come down to being matters of conscience, but she is a mainstream politician and a moderate - but who has firm lines and boundaries in areas which matter to the general voting public.

HappyFace2025 · 08/02/2026 15:35

Shortshriftandlethal · 08/02/2026 13:37

Yet she has sought to proscribe radical islamist groups and protect the rights of jewish, people to be free from prejudice and attack, for example. She doesn't wear a hijab; she's educated and can think critically; and she understands and embraces British values.

I'm afraid I don't trust her. But tbh I don't find any politician today trustworthy. They tell us what they think we want to hear and then renege when they get power.

DrBlackbird · 08/02/2026 16:08

Fuck me if the Labour Party has not learned from watching the Tories for the past fucking decade. Can we not just stick with one party leader for one parliament?

The strength of Reform is that they’re all behind Farage (until Jenrick starts agitating) and Miliband is totally behind gender ideology but smart enough not to go on about it. Anyhow, none of the others are going to be any better. None of them. Sigh.

But Starmer should get rid of McSweeney. He’s giving no 10 shit advice fgs.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 08/02/2026 16:12

But Starmer should get rid of McSweeney. He’s giving no 10 shit advice fgs.

He just did, although it will probably be spun as McSweeney falling on his sword for the sake of the country/party/etc.

HappyFace2025 · 08/02/2026 16:12

McSweeney has just resigned.

CurlewKate · 08/02/2026 16:58

I find the objection to Rayner baffling. Well, I don’t really-misogyny and snobbery are very powerful forces. Important to remember that Streeting has/had a close association with Mandelson.

JustSomeWaferThinHam · 08/02/2026 16:59

Shortshriftandlethal · 08/02/2026 13:18

Such as?

As I mentioned in my previous posts - there are areas where Islamic doctrines are not compatible with our values as a society and we need to be able to discuss those issues only. Imagine hie had it would be fir example to have a frank discussion about the issues if repeated first cousin marriage with someone who very likely has married first cousins in her family.

Unfortunately my concerns have already come to life - see this article from the Free Speech Union:

The Home Office tried to silence an adviser who raised concerns about Islamism.

Fiyaz Mughal, a government adviser on counter-extremism, wrote in The Telegraph that he was “astonished” the threat of Islamism wasn’t mentioned during the first 90 minutes of a Home Office extremism summit.

The day after publication, a Home Office official contacted him about his media engagement.

Fiyaz has worked with the Home Office on and off for 20 years and is the founder of Tell MAMA, which records anti-Muslim hate incidents across the UK. He quit last year, citing “insidious pressure” not to speak publicly about the dangers of Islamism.

He says that since Labour came to power, focus on Islamism has dropped because it is seen as politically inconvenient, with fears of losing the Muslim vote.

We must not allow politicians to turn a blind eye to the dangers of Islamism for electoral gain. Nor should officials attempt to silence those raising legitimate concerns.

If Labour’s proposed definition of Islamophobia — now repackaged as “anti-Muslim hostility” — goes ahead, it risks silencing discussion of Islamist extremism altogether.

JustSomeWaferThinHam · 08/02/2026 17:03

Locutus2000 · 08/02/2026 14:11

My god, do you actually believe this tripe?

As you calling Islam ‘tripe’?

There’s a teacher still in hiding and fearing for his life for less.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/02/2026 17:04

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 08/02/2026 16:12

But Starmer should get rid of McSweeney. He’s giving no 10 shit advice fgs.

He just did, although it will probably be spun as McSweeney falling on his sword for the sake of the country/party/etc.

I doubt that will be enough.

DrBlackbird · 08/02/2026 17:12

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 08/02/2026 16:12

But Starmer should get rid of McSweeney. He’s giving no 10 shit advice fgs.

He just did, although it will probably be spun as McSweeney falling on his sword for the sake of the country/party/etc.

If only i could predict something that really matters like the winning lottery ticket number lol 😝

@Ereshkigalangcleg Probably true for the hardline backbenchers who don’t see Starmer as sufficiently radical. They want to go further left. Not sure how the markets would like that, but it’s obvs what they want. That’d include self ID.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/02/2026 17:13

I think it was the least surprising outcome 😂

JustSomeWaferThinHam · 08/02/2026 17:14

Shortshriftandlethal · 08/02/2026 13:37

Yet she has sought to proscribe radical islamist groups and protect the rights of jewish, people to be free from prejudice and attack, for example. She doesn't wear a hijab; she's educated and can think critically; and she understands and embraces British values.

See my last list about the Home Office appearing to shut down discussion about the Islamic threat. She might say the right things but how much actual action have we seen?

The grooming gangs inquiry is not exactly forging ahead with purpose, small boats are still putting in and it is getting increasingly difficult to deny that our justice system is not treating all groups equally.

I sincerely hope she is putting the interests of Britain above any conflicts there are with her faith but she may have blind spots and she has emphasised that her faith informs her views significantly. As I mentioned, her presence will also have a building effect on discussion in this area, especially among certain people so extremely desperate not to offend anyone.

As a general observation - not making any accusations, but the doctrine of Islam allows Muslims to lie or mislead if it furthers the aims if Islam. One of the main aims is to either convert or defeat non believers.

DrBlackbird · 08/02/2026 17:19

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/02/2026 17:13

I think it was the least surprising outcome 😂

The only thing that was surprising was how long it took! It was either him or Starmer.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/02/2026 17:26

DrBlackbird · 08/02/2026 17:19

The only thing that was surprising was how long it took! It was either him or Starmer.

I wouldn’t bet against Starmer going too.

Dragonasaurus · 08/02/2026 17:26

MarieDeGournay · 07/12/2025 12:34

Rayner could be such an outstanding, admirable example of a woman politician who overcame so many challenges and difficulties, and uses those experiences to stand up for women now she's a successful politician.

It's impossible not to admire the strength and drive of women like her who didn't have an easy start in life - another example is the joint First Minister of NI, Michelle O'Neill, pregnant at the age of 16 which still at school, but determined to pursue her goals anyway.

However, where they go with that admirable drive to overcome early challenges is another matter altogether😒

I’m never sure why getting pregnant (or father a child) at 16 is always hailed as such good preparation for leadership; most of us managed to work out how to use contraception, or at least the morning after pill by then. Surely that level of forward planning is the minimum requirement for good leadership

SidewaysOtter · 08/02/2026 17:38

CurlewKate · 08/02/2026 16:58

I find the objection to Rayner baffling. Well, I don’t really-misogyny and snobbery are very powerful forces. Important to remember that Streeting has/had a close association with Mandelson.

I don’t want politicians to be calling the Opposition “scum”. It’s utterly unprofessional and it’s not good enough when people try to explain it away as “snobbery” because she’s working class. Plenty of politicians come from working class backgrounds and manage to act with dignity and professionalism.

Rayner makes John Prescott look refined. And he’s an MP who punched a member of the public…