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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why the NHS puberty blocker trial is appalling

1000 replies

Soontobe60 · 16/11/2025 14:43

Stella O’Malley from Genspect telling it like it is - that a state endorsed trial of puberty blockers for gender dysphoric children should NOT go ahead.
the NHS are not walking into this nightmare blindly - there are enough experts out there telling them what will happen happen to these children if they’re given these life changing drugs.
https://x.com/genspect/status/1989896741358113127?s=61&t=gKvvk-rWmOlYFGMZN8QVvQ

Genspect (@genspect) on X

In a conversation about the Next Generation, podcast host Elliot Bewick @elliotbewick talks with @stellaomalley3 : “This won't be puberty because their reproductive system won't be awakened, it will be a chemical insurgents into their body…and so they...

https://x.com/genspect/status/1989896741358113127?s=61&t=gKvvk-rWmOlYFGMZN8QVvQ

OP posts:
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82
MalagaNights · 24/11/2025 09:12

DrBlackbird · 24/11/2025 09:03

@WhyThatsDelightful it is the rise of the authoritarian left deciding they know best. Seeing parents as the problem and some activist teachers and healthcare professionals thinking they know the child better that the parents. Then, convincing themselves that actively working towards separating the child from the parents is in the best interests of the child.

Questions for Children/Young people on Body Image Scale – Gender Spectrum (BIS-GS)
'Each questions asks: a) How happy are you with [insert name of a particular body part]?: With answers i) very happy ii) happy iii) neutral iv) unhappy v) very unhappy vi) don’t have.
Each question is followed up with: Would you want to change that body part if it was possible through medical or surgical treatment? i) Yes ii) No

As it happens, I have many concerns with such questionnaires, their content, who uses them, how they’re used, and the wider implications of using them.

Far too often healthcare professionals are focusing on the task of asking questions and filling in the forms without anything like near enough skill and knowledge on child development let alone more subtle skills and understanding in working with ASD/ADHD children.

Asking a question is a powerful activity and very easily inserts thoughts or ideas into a child’s mind that was not present before being asked the question. An idea that takes root and expands with potentially disastrous consequences. It works on all children, but more poignantly and deeply on suggestible and susceptible children and teens.

None of this gives me any reassurance about this trial.

I totally agree with this. Assessment is an intervention which changes outcomes.

Parental rights have been undermined by the notion of the Child's Voice, which has moved away from being important in decision making to the priority.
It's linked to concepts of lived experience and authenticity and allows professionals to abdicate responsibility and exclude parents. A parent not prioritising their child's voice and experience is a danger to the child and can be sidelined.

I think this insidious shift is responsible for other disasters in safe guarding such as the grooming gangs. Where child voice was taken as consent and parents were ignored.

It's undermining the very concept of safeguarding where there should be a presumption that adults protect children. This has changed to adults should do what children say they want.

JamieCannister · 24/11/2025 09:12

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 24/11/2025 09:08

@DrBlackbird:

Asking a question is a powerful activity and very easily inserts thoughts or ideas into a child’s mind that was not present before being asked the question.

At my final orthodontic appointment as a young teenager, the orthodontist said in passing, to my father, “At some point she may say she wants a nose job. In her case I would recommend a chin enhancement.”

Reader, I had never considered up to that point that I might want to alter my face in any way. But you had better believe that I started thinking about it daily at that point. Never did have any sort of surgery, but that man’s words drilled into me and stay with me 40 years later.

I know we all say stupid and harmful things, but on what planet did that orthodontist think what he said was anything other than massively harmful? The mind boggles.

ArabellaSaurus · 24/11/2025 09:14

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 24/11/2025 09:08

@DrBlackbird:

Asking a question is a powerful activity and very easily inserts thoughts or ideas into a child’s mind that was not present before being asked the question.

At my final orthodontic appointment as a young teenager, the orthodontist said in passing, to my father, “At some point she may say she wants a nose job. In her case I would recommend a chin enhancement.”

Reader, I had never considered up to that point that I might want to alter my face in any way. But you had better believe that I started thinking about it daily at that point. Never did have any sort of surgery, but that man’s words drilled into me and stay with me 40 years later.

FFS! That makes me rage.

These men see women as less than human. I guess it's their attempt at territorial pissing, and also keeps the money rolling in.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 24/11/2025 09:18

JamieCannister · 24/11/2025 09:12

I know we all say stupid and harmful things, but on what planet did that orthodontist think what he said was anything other than massively harmful? The mind boggles.

I genuinely think he thought he was being helpful - saving me from unnecessary nose surgery. It’s not far from the thinking of many medical people wrt the trans issue - they desperately, desperately want to help - so much so that they forget to engage their brains.

MalagaNights · 24/11/2025 09:20

Signalbox · 24/11/2025 09:06

I assume the desired outcome is to get the “evidence” they need to continue to prescribe puberty blockers to anyone who asks for them. They already know the results will be positive. Imagine the pressure on those poor children to report an improved mental state. The experiment is short enough that none of the longterm consequences will be seen. Children will still be in the grasp of the trans cult by the end of the process. It’s so massively flawed. Even Wes’ X post gives the game away. He has no doubt that the result will give them the “evidence” they need. The whole thing is fake.

“We're now setting up clinical trials to build the evidence base we need to support vulnerable children properly.”

But even if they're all happier, if they all go on to cross sex hormones won't the same alarm bells be rung as before:
We've proved PB lead to ensuring a trans identity persists?

The difficulty is happiness is the goal.

No one is prepated to say happiness with your natural body is preferable to happiness with your sterile non functioning ill body. So let's try for that outcome first.

Which is insane.

Insane is the word I've been coming back to every time I try to understand this. I've not seen a rationale which is sane never mind ethical.

mazedasamarchhare · 24/11/2025 09:27

ArabellaSaurus · 22/11/2025 08:56

Who the fuck would volunteer their child for this?!

A parent who realises hey can make a shit ton on money by suing the NHS when it all comes out how damaging this is. Parents only have £££££ in their sights and the medics involved clearly have questionable motives as most likely extremely undesirable thought processes when it comes to prepubescent schildren.

Shedmistress · 24/11/2025 09:30

CyanHelper · 23/11/2025 21:08

Yes, I agree. We need data!!! We get data from studies. Long term, well designed studies. I think the only difference in our positions is that you don't think that this condition needs treating before puberty? Where as I am not yet sure.

They have data. They are just choosing not to release it.

I don't think 'liking the wrong toys' or 'being gay or lesbian' or 'being autistic' needs treating by sterilisation. Why do you think it does?

Shedmistress · 24/11/2025 09:32

MalagaNights · 24/11/2025 09:12

I totally agree with this. Assessment is an intervention which changes outcomes.

Parental rights have been undermined by the notion of the Child's Voice, which has moved away from being important in decision making to the priority.
It's linked to concepts of lived experience and authenticity and allows professionals to abdicate responsibility and exclude parents. A parent not prioritising their child's voice and experience is a danger to the child and can be sidelined.

I think this insidious shift is responsible for other disasters in safe guarding such as the grooming gangs. Where child voice was taken as consent and parents were ignored.

It's undermining the very concept of safeguarding where there should be a presumption that adults protect children. This has changed to adults should do what children say they want.

Even answering some of those questions put the idea that some of those questions are ideas that will stay with that child forever.

CarefulN0w · 24/11/2025 09:43

Signalbox · 24/11/2025 09:06

I assume the desired outcome is to get the “evidence” they need to continue to prescribe puberty blockers to anyone who asks for them. They already know the results will be positive. Imagine the pressure on those poor children to report an improved mental state. The experiment is short enough that none of the longterm consequences will be seen. Children will still be in the grasp of the trans cult by the end of the process. It’s so massively flawed. Even Wes’ X post gives the game away. He has no doubt that the result will give them the “evidence” they need. The whole thing is fake.

“We're now setting up clinical trials to build the evidence base we need to support vulnerable children properly.”

I am sure this is the aim. And there isn’t much chance of rival research to come up with alternative findings. Although evidence of harms is going to become harder to ignore over time. The children treated in the past 15 years or so are aging and the iatrogenic effects will become obvious.

It’s astonishing isn’t it? Covid jabs, weight loss injections and other recent developments are commonly discussed in terms of whether they could cause long term harms, and yet experiments on children, which don’t objectively offer health benefits are not subject to the same level of discussion or scrutiny.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 24/11/2025 10:00

CyanHelper · 23/11/2025 22:24

Yes, I agree its difficult because they are children( so parents must agree) , and for some their incongurence does not abate with psychiatric treatment or puberty.

Physical interventions for psychiatric disorders are not unheard of. But children! So its tricky. We need more evidence.

No, I cannot clarify but the young person and their parents can. I am simply asking for a trial to continue so we get more evidence.

Sorry - missed your response last night. What you're still avoiding is how can anyone ensure that 10 / 12 year olds can give informed consent to the medication / experimentation that is going to harm their futures permanently. Especially as these are physically healthy children?
Nobody on the "let's experiment on these children" side is able or prepared to explain how such young children can give informed consent? Or why it's ethical for a parent to decide that their physically healthy child should be sterilised, physically & possibly mentally impaired for life.
How does this work?

Kucinghitam · 24/11/2025 10:01

Thing is, we all know that asking the question can make the idea stick into a person's head. An adult, fully developed, person.

The "Don't think of a pink elephant" phenomenon.

And we know from other notorious situations not to ask leading questions of witnesses, victims of crime, possible abuse victims, etc. Especially not children.

But now we're all meant to pretend this doesn't happen when it suits this ideology.

ArabellaSaurus · 24/11/2025 10:03

MrsOvertonsWindow · 24/11/2025 10:00

Sorry - missed your response last night. What you're still avoiding is how can anyone ensure that 10 / 12 year olds can give informed consent to the medication / experimentation that is going to harm their futures permanently. Especially as these are physically healthy children?
Nobody on the "let's experiment on these children" side is able or prepared to explain how such young children can give informed consent? Or why it's ethical for a parent to decide that their physically healthy child should be sterilised, physically & possibly mentally impaired for life.
How does this work?

how can anyone ensure that 10 / 12 year olds can give informed consent to the medication / experimentation that is going to harm their futures permanently.

The section on consent states it is parents/carers who have to give consent. They only seek 'assent' from the children. This seems to be tacit acknowledgement that the children involved are not capable of consent.

TheWeightOfTheWorld · 24/11/2025 10:08

In effect, does that mean that a child giving assent has to fully understand that they will be giving responsibility to their parent(s) to decide about their possible sterilisation, future health problems, permanent changes that cannot be reversed?

PrettyDamnCosmic · 24/11/2025 10:12

WhyThatsDelightful · 23/11/2025 22:53

“Gillick” will be used to assert informed consent, its use is well embedded in all areas of NHS, Social Care, Education and the 3rd sector on any wellbeing/health conversation.

Its use eliminates parental responsibility.

It functions by any individual in any of these institutions asserting any child they’re working with as “Gillick competent”. No record of a Gillick Assessment is required, only an ephemeral understanding that someone somewhere has carried one out on any topic at any point in the child’s lifetime. There are no limitations on any decision a member of these institutions can then make due to Autism, ADD, disruptive/abusive family environments etc etc.

Its practical existence is to indemnify any individual working for these institutions from any decision they may make about a child. Have a look at school policies ref Covid or any vaccines, topics around PHSE, drug misuse etc etc and even better if you can check out 3rd sector training guidelines on use of Gillick. See if you can spot any Gillick related policies that limit assessments and decisions to formal, medical professional roles and require the use of formal recording and monitoring systems for use specific assessments, most policies will reference generic non medical professional roles such as LEA approved keyworkers or nurse to do whatever they think is right.

The only people who cannot object/question/override a child’s state of “Gillick Competent” are parents. There are no non extreme legal routes to override a “Gillick Competent” decision.

This is my personal experience.

if Gillick is taken out, this trial cannot proceed.

Edited

At least one parent must give consent for the child to enter the trial. Assessment of so called “Gillick competence” doesn’t arise.

ArabellaSaurus · 24/11/2025 10:14

How will they assess the parents' standing to give consent? Will parents be vetted? What if they are abusive?

ArabellaSaurus · 24/11/2025 10:15

Will they screen for Munchausens, or mental illness in the parent/carer?

PrettyDamnCosmic · 24/11/2025 10:15

DrBlackbird · 23/11/2025 23:09

The only people who cannot object/question/override a child’s state of “Gillick Competent” are parents. There are no non extreme legal routes to override a “Gillick Competent” decision.

That is insane in that a majority of the time it’s the parents who have the best of intentions, want the best for their child, and know their child the best rather than some unrelated person who has no skin in the game and if it all goes badly for the child can, what, shrug and go ‘it’s the 13 year old’s decision’?!

Discussion of so called “Gillick competence” is irrelevant to this trial as parental consent is required before a child can be entered into the trial.

Skyellaskerry · 24/11/2025 10:16

ArabellaSaurus · 22/11/2025 14:57

'2.12 What will happen when a young person comes to the end of their two years of treatment within PATHWAYS TRIAL?

When the trial ends, the young person’s doctor will talk to them and their parents/legal guardians about how they have found the treatment in terms of their quality of life, mental and physical health and their experience of their gender and body. Young people will discuss the next steps for their care, what the options are, and what they would like to do. These might include staying on puberty suppressing hormones, stopping the treatment, or going on to another treatment. It is not possible to know before starting puberty suppressing hormones what the treatment plan for any single young person will be at the end of the trial. This will depend on several factors, including their experience of puberty suppressing hormones, their mental and physical health, and their preferences for future care. We also do not know whether safety monitoring from the trial more generally may be showing that there are significant risks from this treatment, which could mean it is not a good idea to stay on puberty suppressing hormones.

If a young person wants to stay on puberty suppressing hormones and their doctor in the NHS Children and Young People’s Gender Service agrees that they may continue to benefit from it, their care will be reviewed again by the NMDT, who will need to agree that they should stay on puberty suppressing hormones. If the NMDT don’t agree, they will give the young person reasons why they think this is not the right ongoing care for them. If they make that decision and the young person’s circumstances change so the reasons they gave no longer apply, the young person’s doctor can ask for another review of your care. If a young person stays on puberty suppressing hormones their care will need to be reviewed by the NMDT every year while they are on it, to check it is still the right treatment for them.'

I thought it was worth reposting what Arabella found to the question what happens after 2 years as a few posts have also asked.

I don’t understand how, if their use is currently banned, they can somehow be prescribed to the children outside of the trial once it ends after 2 years. Wrong anyway but there’s not even a statement that this would depend on the health secretary lifting the ban. How can this commitment be given without some sort of approval?

PrettyDamnCosmic · 24/11/2025 10:18

WhyThatsDelightful · 23/11/2025 23:53

Thank you

Personally it looks very impressive, however (quick/first reaction):

  • There are no clinical roles defined in who makes the assent/consent record/decision and where that will be recorded (so anyone can, and “some notes” will probably do)
  • There is no requirement for validation of any decision/record of a decision (2nd Doctor etc)
  • This is a clinical trial, not a life saving proven safe vaccine, it’s written so that no adult can just say no - what’s the rush?
  • There’s no limitation that one or two parents/carers’ consent must formally exist and be recorded, nor is there any requirement or test that their “informed” state is of a good and necessary standard. Similar for the child.
  • A social worker can be a carer, a temporary carer for a child in care (looking at Blackpool and Brighton here), see points on coercion below - social worker training continues to be “affirmation only” typically provided as a monopoly by activist organisations such as Allsorts Youth Group etc
  • There’s no restrictions on existing conditions such as Authism ADD etc
  • There’s no restrictions on coercion (any involvement from Mermaids, Allsorts Youth Group, Gendered Intelligence, Transaction, Good Law Project, Jackson Bird/Jammi Dodger on YouTube/Tiktok etc etc)

In summary it’s largely a rewrite of the GMC guidelines on Gillick which operate like they do as I’ve outlined from experience, unlimited indemnity of the individuals involved underwritten by the government, elimination of parental authority, and enabling secrets with children and child consent.

Any contract or policy that has lots of impressive, technical words is intended to blind and impress, to distract and avoid scrutiny. To be furtive. It feels in practical terms very like Ryan Air’s general terms and conditions of carriage, and that’s written so there’s only ever one winner, and it’s not the passenger.

You are arguing from an incorrect premise. Consent is required from at least one parent before a child can be enrolled on the trial.

ArabellaSaurus · 24/11/2025 10:24

'15.7 Insurance and indemnity

King’s College London provides no fault liability insurance in the event of harm arising from the study design. UK NHS recruiting sites provide indemnity in the event of clinical negligence.'

Two very short sentences, right at the very end of the document. Be interesting to see the details of these insurances.

Skyellaskerry · 24/11/2025 10:31

@ArabellaSaurus thanks!

the insurance wording is “study design” but what about outcomes, especially if they could have been foreseen. Insurers aren’t daft are they, they will surely have covered themselves.

nicepotoftea · 24/11/2025 10:47

Skyellaskerry · 24/11/2025 10:31

@ArabellaSaurus thanks!

the insurance wording is “study design” but what about outcomes, especially if they could have been foreseen. Insurers aren’t daft are they, they will surely have covered themselves.

Yes - I wonder if the insurance covers anything that happens outside the 2 year parameter?

CarefulN0w · 24/11/2025 10:49

The thing with consent is that the person giving consent needs to show that they understand the risks of the proposed treatment. It’s not consent if someone says “the risks don’t apply to me because xxx spurious reason” and I’ve known a patient lose in court by using exactly that argument.

What I am genuinely struggling to get my head around in this situation, is how anyone could consent when the potential risks are so devastating and yet these experiments benefits so nebulous.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 24/11/2025 11:03

CarefulN0w · 24/11/2025 10:49

The thing with consent is that the person giving consent needs to show that they understand the risks of the proposed treatment. It’s not consent if someone says “the risks don’t apply to me because xxx spurious reason” and I’ve known a patient lose in court by using exactly that argument.

What I am genuinely struggling to get my head around in this situation, is how anyone could consent when the potential risks are so devastating and yet these experiments benefits so nebulous.

Yes. Look at all the court cases where parents of young women with profound disabilities have argued that their daughter needs sterilising because of the dangers to her and / or a baby if she gets pregnant. Those cases are rightly intensively argued via the legal system.

Yet we've got the NHS hand waving away any concerns about sterilisation, brain damage, inorgasmia etc and proposing that parents can just give away their 10 year old child's right to a healthy functioning adult body because the NHS wants data on whether young children are affected negatively by chemically stopping the natural process of puberty.

Datun · 24/11/2025 11:05

timesublimelysilencesthewhys · 23/11/2025 22:41

and for some their incongurence does not abate with psychiatric treatment or puberty.

But thats the confusing thing about the use of PB.

Lots of children who present with gender incongruence before puberty don't after. So why suppress puberty as part of the treatement?

They are reducing the childs chance of desisting, aren't they?

Exactly. Treatment A (puberty) has an 85% success rate. Treatment B (blockers) has not only an unknown success rate, it almost guarantees you'll never get treatment A.

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