Fuming about this survey re violence against women and girls

[TamzinGrey]

I was delighted to receive an email from my local council promising to create ways to reduce VAWG in the borough and asking me to complete a survey.
I clicked on the link and answered all of the questions which were mainly about my experiences of male violence and aggression. It brought back horrible memories for me but it did appear to be a helpful survey.

When I got to the end I was expecting to be asked to tick a box asking whether I was female or male (for some reason men had also been invited to complete this survey about women's experiences)
Here's what came up:

Which of the following options best describes how you think of yourself?

Woman (including trans women)
Man (including trans man)
Non-binary
In another way

Is your gender identity the same as the gender you were registered at birth?

I'm bloody fuming. In a survey about violence against women and girls I wasn't allowed to describe myself as an actual woman. They just want to know how I "think" of myself.

I did make a comment about not believing that the council are taking VAWG seriously as I wasn't even given the opportunity to describe my sex as female.

Here's a link to the survey. Anyone can complete it but they do ask for a postcode at the end.

https://online1.snapsurveys.com/Interview/942ffa79-febf-44cb-
ada2-7d1b9ef608d3

Why would they have to be on a separate survey if you believe trans men are female?

What makes you think 'trans men' are NOT female?

That's irrelevant to my question. But I can tell you just feel compelled to talk about it rather than the actual topic because you care so much about my personal views.

If you believe that trans men are female, then of course they should be represented on a survey exploring the experiences of violence against women and girls. Of course you'd want them to answer it in ways that acknowledge them as trans men because you'd want to compare their experiences to other females. You'd also want to make sure they will fill out the survey by ensuring they feel represented.

A person who believes trans men are men would think it inappropriate for them to be surveyed on such a study aimed at women.

I believe they should be on this survey but be able to separate themselves from those who are not trans men. So what do you think I believe about whether trans men are female or not?

Trans men who are women who say they are men ARE women. They aren't men or they would be called 'men'.

The deliberate confusion is what fuels this whole shit show.

Men. Women. That's it. Until people start just offering the two options that are actual reality, no survey is worth even starting.

She didn’t say they has to be separate, just that it might be interesting. Intersectionality of trans identity and female, that might be interesting additional data why wouldn’t it be?

No you're wanting to talk about topics that you want to talk about again. If you believe trans men are female, then they should be on the survey but clearly labelled as trans men. They are. That's it. There is nothing else to it. Unless you think trans men are men.

Yes and that why the survey allows for everyone who participates to reveal if they are trans or not.

That’s fine imo.
but whether the data analysis does the logic combining that and the ‘woman (including trans)’ to maybe get sex is doubtful. The sex of any nonbinary participants would be ambiguous.

its far clearer and congruent with our legal categories if the questions are sex (sex at birth for clarify) and the gender one. That allows for proper intersectional analysis of protected characteristics.

No I think it is very interesting if merely identifying as a woman substantially raises your liklihood of being a victim of abuse by a partner. I'd like to see how that works out. It supports the idea that femininity is targeted by perpetrators of abuse. Which we know, it is just helpful to have ongoing research that proves it is still the case.

No I think it is very interesting if merely identifying as a woman substantially raises your liklihood of being a victim of abuse by a partner

It does. Women are not murdering their partners or ex partners at a rate of 2-3 a week are they?

Well exactly why this study should also include trans women then. So we have even more justification for who they include and how they include them.

But clear questions on sex and gender permit that analysis too.
If you want to be able to correctly analyse intersections of protected characteristics you should use clear categories in the first place, Is the effect of being female with a trans identity not equally as interesting to you?

Why should a study on violence against women and girls include men? There is absolutely zero reason to include them.

We've just discussed this and agreed it is interesting to show that merely identifying as a woman raises your risk of being a victim of abuse. Have you forgotten already?

These are clear questions. Are you a woman? Yes. Is your gender now the same as the one you were deemed at birth? Yes.

Very clear and simple questions.

This is a brilliant summary of the position of AI et al. Really nails it!

Nobody has had a gender 'deemed at birth' It's all made up bullshit. It's nonsense. You are spouting utter gobbledegook.

They’re not. ‘Woman (including transwomen) isn’t a legally defined category.
clearer questions would be:
what is your biological sex (sex at birth)
Do you have a transgender identity.

It's a clear category. If you struggle with comprehending that you are a woman, then perhaps you have SEND. you are in the woman (including trans woman) category because you are a woman, presumably. It really isn't complex.

Yes you do have a gender you are declared at birth. On my kids' papers, it says boy, girl, boy. When they say "it's a girl/boy", that's what they're doing. HTH.

No.
woman means Female human. Thats it.
There is no legal (or rational) category which includes women and transwomen. It’s not ‘feminine’ - many women aren’t. ‘Woman’ does not, and cannot meaningfully and legally, mean ‘people who claim to be women’.

No need for silly digs, I’m not remotely confused about being a woman.
Its really not complex!

What country are you in? Uk birth certificates record sex, not gender.
HTH

(Apart from the legal fiction of the GRA but we’re specifically discussing sex at birth. Which obviously in reality remains a persons sex forever))

I posted a link below but here it is again: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/independent-review-of-data-statistics-and-research-on-sex-and-gender/review-of-data-statistics-and-research-on-sex-and-gender-executive-summary.

The government-commissioned Sullivan review has already considered many of the questions people are asking here, and come up with a set of recommendations for how to word questions on sex and gender (identity), setting out the problems when they are conflated or confused, what issues have arisen, looking at what happened with the Census, how the wording should change depending on purpose, etc etc. The work has been done.

It applies to all public bodies, including local government.

My discharge papers say gender. Therefore, that was their assigned gender at birth

For this, they are grouping women and trans women. They later identity the trans people with a further question.