Bloody Brighton

[Enterthewolves]

I am assuming, following the SC judgement, that this policy is legally incorrect? https://brightondome.org/plan-your-visit/facilities-at-brighton-dome/bathrooms/ Does anyone have a link to a template letter I could use?

The loos are standard cubicles with gaps at the top and bottom of the doors with communal sinks.

Yup. They don’t comply with the law in that they are labelling toilets by sex ‘men’ and ‘women’ and inviting people of either sex to use them.

Their gender neutral provision seems legal, and the fact that they describe the features suggests that the male and female (they call men and women but presumably under 18s can use them too) provision isn’t of the same spec.

Last time I was there, they were actually labelled
Male gender inclusive toilets
And
Female gender inclusive toilets

Which, ironically, would have been exactly the right thing to do if it meant what it said.

Im still drinking coffee, but I actually don't understand that

I would stand there, wondering which one I'm supposed to use!

The toilet spaces are intended for people who identify most closely with the gender shown on the sign and the inclusive policy is not an invitation to avoid a queue.

So women pretending to be men can use the men's toilets, but not women who want to skip the queue. Can women pretend to be men just for the purpose of skipping the queue, and then go back to being women? Can men pretending to be women skip the queue and use the men's? How can they tell who's pretending to be what at any given moment? The rule seems to be use whichever toilet you want to unless we decide that you can't.

There was also a woman symbol and a gender bollocks symbol iirc. But seriously I wondered if they had seen the light and were complying with the SC ruling by putting male people of any gender in one place and female people of any gender in the other. On the way home I looked up that website and discovered that no they just mean go wherever you like.

Can women pretend to be men just for the purpose of skipping the queue, and then go back to being women?

Course you can. Who's going to challenge you, in Brighton? Perhaps all of us should do so until the men start complaining, they might actually be listened to.

And remember it's best suits your gender identity or expression. Wearing trousers today? Into the gents you go. Got short hair? Not wearing makeup? Clearly you're not trying hard enough to express a female gender, the choice is all yours.

I have been to the Dome
The queue for the ladies was just as long as usual and the men's was short. As usual. I was very tempted to nip into the mens but didn't have the nerve.
Most people, it seems, do use the loo they are meant to.

In a different venue, I accidentally took a vulnerable client into the men's because the signage wasn't clear. Several men in there looked horrified, and my clients screwed up her nose and grumbled that it smelt of wee in there)

Not making any point here. Just an observation.

I did also have a man in the cubicle next to me recently at a woodland activities place. It felt very odd having a man peeing beside me. With gaps under the sides. The signage is unclear there too. I think as it's a family place it would feel ok to have a dad in there with his daughter. I didn't feel in danger but I did feel awkward. I'm pretty certain he went in there in error.

It was definitely odd.

The men’s toilet at the dome is so badly designed that I have seen several men pee in the sinks. As in - the urinal is a long wide trough design, and so is the sink, and they genuinely look like they could be either.

Steady on. Those loos are strictly only for the gender fluid.

And by gender fluid, I don't mean urine.

😲

Dont forget, we are all non binary.

reminded me of this chap:

https://x.com/powlizpanton/status/1957812245242532089?s=46&t=A2fpFNgDRyXF2d6ye97wEA

Clear signage is really important for so many reasons, not least anyone for whom English is an additional language or have mild learning difficulties.

they just need to get a fucking grip.

Yes
In spite of the explanations, I'm still not quite sure which one I would be meant to use
But that's the plan

I would probably get thrown out because I would find a member of staff and ask politely where the ladies is

I haven't been to Brighton for years. Is this kind of stuff very visible?

Brighton is shit. I used to live near there. Women are just no longer safe there.
Trans rights trump any other rights in Brighton.

Mandatory Separate Provision (with exceptions):

Workplaces and some public buildings: Regulations (such as the Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992 and new building rules as of July 2022) generally require separate toilet facilities for men and women.

Exceptions: Mixed-sex (unisex) facilities are permitted where each toilet is in a separate, fully lockable room, intended for use by one person at a time.

Transgender Access and Non-Discrimination:
Organisations can exclude a biological male (whether or not they identify as a woman) from women's single-sex toilets and vice versa.
However, trans people must not be left in a position where there are no facilities for them to use at all.

The recommended solution is to provide mixed-sex (universal) facilities in addition to the single-sex ones, where possible.

New Building Regulations: New public buildings are directed to prioritise single-sex toilets, with universal toilets provided only where space allows.

Guidance from the EHRC: The Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) has issued interim and is preparing a full updated Code of Practice on the matter. The guidance states that allowing use based on gender identity invalidates single-sex provision.

No "Bathroom Law" for Individuals: There is no specific criminal law in the UK that prevents a person from using a particular toilet based on their sex. The law is focused on the provision of facilities by service providers and employers. If a property owner asks someone to leave their premises and they refuse, it could become a matter of trespass.

The ruling provides a clear legal framework for policies based on biological sex, but organisations are still navigating the practical implications and working to ensure compliance while also considering the needs and safety of all users.

(Sorry generated by AI and no time to find links for source)

I thought the older regulations (first in list) means that single sex as in biology had to be provided as well as other facilities such as disabled facilites and unisex.

The rule seems to be use whichever toilet you want to unless we decide that you can't.

Yes, except they don't seem to have twigged that once they have allowed some women to use the men's loo and vice versa, it would be discriminatory to exclude anyone on the basis of sex.

How can they tell who's pretending to be what at any given moment?
Exactly, but the way you wrote this made me lol 😂 thanks for the fun !

What do you mean by women are no longer safe there? Genuinely concerned as my dd lives there.

Women have never been safe there, there are drugs, homeless, alcoholics everywhere.
Its fine if she takes precautions but I certainly never felt safe there. She shouldn't let her guard down.

Crime really isn't worse here than anywhere else, in fact a lot of close places like Hastings are definitely worse than Brighton on crime figures.

Trans nonsense, obviously not.

EDIT tell a line Hastings is actually a bit better, but Brighton is a lot better than Crawley or Eastbourne, both very close, for example - https://www.police.uk/pu/your-area/sussex-police/performance/compare-your-area/?tc=CC2NH4

If this has annoyed you there are Brighton Secondary Schools that refuse to provide single sex toilets and changing rooms for their female students and refuse to do a risk assessment for them.

Love this! Thanks for sharing 🙂