Kathy Burke: I didn't want to be a boy but I didn't want to be a girlie girl either

[BonfireLady]

My jaw hit the floor several times reading this extract from Kathy Burke's book:

https://www.vogue.co.uk/article/kathy-burke-book

In a parallel universe, I'd have been so happy to read this. She talks about being happy that she was mistaken for a boy, being delighted with her short hair, finding joy in punk rock as her answer to where she fitted in the world, recognising the risk of pregnancy when she was younger and didn't feel old enough for sex.

In that parallel would, she would have been an amazing role model for my daughter. Instead, Kathy Burke is one of many celebrities who represents a massive societal risk to my daughter who is: happy when being mistaken for a boy, delighted with her short hair, finding her confidence with the piano and bass guitar (she has a musical talent that hasn't come from me 😬), appalled at the idea of sex anyway (but thankfully understands that only females can get pregnant) and.... struggling with puberty (hates her breasts, hates periods, hates the way boys look at girls now that she and her peers are no longer young children).

If my daughter met someone like Kathy Burke, I would fully expect her to be told that if she feels like a boy, she is a boy... trapped in the wrong body.... but don't worry, you can remove those breasts and even take testosterone if it want. Etc.

How can Kathy Burke be so close to getting it... yet so far?

I’m with you both, @BonfireLadyand @Iwanttoliveinagardencentre. And I’d add that I’ve been raising this issue in left-leaning circles for over a decade now, long before any of our right-leaning allies even realised there was anything going on. I’ve appreciated the non-partisan grassroots work we’ve all put into this, but I do raise an eyebrow at some of drive by insults from people obviously new to the topic.

This pretty much sums up much thoughts.

I hadn't heard her GC views before and it's disappointing to see she's another whose drunk the kool aid.

I did like KB way back the day and I was surprised when I read she was releasing a book as I thought she always seemed to value her privacy. But I suppose the money talked too loudly. I certainly won't be reading it as I suspect it'd shatter my opinion further. Much like Alan Rickman's diaries who I thought would show a funny, warm interesting man but actually he came over as a bit of a dick.

Which bit is bollocks?

1. that Kathy Burke believes transwomen are women (and transmen are men)
2. that transwomen are women (and transmen are men)
3. that some girls now believe they are boys, when previously they wouldn't have done
4. that some girls grow into adulthood with this belief and then remove their breasts and/or damage their bodies with testosterone

I don't hate Kathy Burke. I'm disappointed in Kathy Burke, for the reasons that I have said above.

As for barrel-scraping, this article popped up on my newsfeed and I shared it here, for the reasons that I have said above. The barrel was scraped by the Google algorithm, not me.

Much like Alan Rickman's diaries who I thought would show a funny, warm interesting man but actually he came over as a bit of a dick.

Oh nooooooooooooooo 😬 I'm going to give it a wide berth just in case I conclude the same.

I'm nervously contemplating reading Ben Elton's autobiography. I think I will but I already felt let down when he announced his pronouns in the (now infamous) Jordan Gray Piano-Penis show..... so I'm nervous that he might have drunk the kool aid just like the wife of the main character in his brilliantly written novel Blind Faith.

@BonfireLadyI wasn’t aware, so I was totally confused.

In hindsight, I think it would have made more sense if I'd referenced her (TWAW) views in my OP 🤦‍♀️

I wonder if she's still mates with James Dreyfus? He's been really outspoken on the issue

I remember that documentary. I expected so much more, but it fell very flat. KB did not come across well at all.

Love him!

'Much like Alan Rickman's diaries who I thought would show a funny, warm interesting man but actually he came over as a bit of a dick.
Oh nooooooooooooooo 😬 I'm going to give it a wide berth just in case I conclude the same.'

I didn't think he came across as a dick. I wouldn't describe him as warm and funny either mind you 😁 he seemed like a complex person who definitely had a spiky side. The diaries are a great read though, he had a hell of a life

The one thing I will say in his defence is that he obviously never meant for them to be published and I did feel a bit uncomfortable reading them.

Blimey, this Alan Rickman side story is intriguing.... Good to see a balance that he may not come across as a dick at all but it sounds weird that someone close to him published them.

And on the Kathy Burke and James Dreyfus friendship, I'm going to assume not. I think it was Glinner who brought up the fact that KB had never stood up for JD.... and KB's response put them both down. I'll see if I can find it.

Here's part of it - without KB's retort ⬇️

Love Kathy!! Had forgotten her!! Thanks for the share.

Love Kathy

Had forgotten her

Oh that we could all be the object of such love.

Here it is ⬇️

The majority of her response seems to be directed at Glinner ("that BLOKE with the book coming out") but if she wanted to demonstrate that she valued James Dreyfus as a friend, calling him "another BLOKE" in this context is an odd way to do so.

She really does seem to make a habit of spectacularly missing the point. JD and GL do stand up for women's rights e.g. to fair sport (without males), access to single-sex changing facilities (i.e. without males being in there too) and so on.

What I'm hearing is "I don't know what I'm talking about but I'm going to talk about it anyway".

Ohh I also didn’t realise Kathy Burke is on the TWAW side. So found your OP quite confusing.

Makes more sense now.

Didn’t Ben Elton give his pronouns as something humorous like ‘Balding, old, and crapping myself’? His book is great and there’s nothing to be nervous about.

I saw Ben Elton live last year, and he is on the GC side. Had a routine about his daughter giving permission to say she is gay so he didn't get totally cancelled. He was very funny and somewhat of a relief to find at least one famous lefty still has his critical facilities.

Ben Elton is GC, really? I would honestly never have thought that. He's irritated me for a long number of years for various reasons but I might start listening to him again!

Yes.

Yes, my mum had long hair for a few years but most of her life had sort hair - as a teen she had very very short hair, much shorter than my dad - he had a sort of mullet like cut, and a perm for a while!

In fact when I was small, I thought old ladies couldn't grow long hair, that it naturally shortened like men became bald.

I find the way some people talk about women being forced to wear dresses and long hair, as if it affected them greatly, a little strange. Women have been commonly wearing their hair short since the 1920s, and trousers have been commonplace on women since the 60s.

Anyone today that lived at a time when trousers and short hair on women were an innovation is pretty elderly.

My grandmother was born before the First World War. I have photos of her with short hair during the Second World War. I also have a photo of her mother with short hair, taken in the early 1930s. Nobody older than that is still alive.