Is "Intersectional feminism" the problem? Filia SBS statement.

[catspyjamas1]

Following the fallout from Filia, and the clearly coordinated social media 'response' today from women involved in WPUK, and now Filia, SBS released this.

To me, intersectional feminism is basically liberal feminism, and has been for several years.

southallblacksisters.org.uk/news/sbs-statement-on-filia-conference/

The statements are from groups who consider themselves socialist feminists, and the socialist is the priority. The feminist is just another area to use as a socialist platform.

And the link is the entryism of AGCL into FiLia.

See https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5263451-actual-gender-critical-left?reply=147955583

And the infamous "elephant" thread https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4662757-womens-place-uk-filia-event-the-elephant-ignored-yet-again?page=27&reply=121163378

When Hamas could no longer be contained by Israel as demonstrated by the 7th October breakout...

Disgusting.

I am so shocked at the total absence of any meaningful self reflection. In all statements and social media posts. Kathleen Stock's post yesterday was spot on about this.

Stock's post FYI
"there's a small faction of GC feminism - all on far left - that simply can't compute anyone being on stage with someone they disagree with. It blows their tiny minds and keeps the chat groups permanently fuming. They are so limited in understanding of people that the only thing they can infer from it is "secret agreement". The purity attitude also stops them ever getting any proper coverage or engagement themselves because they can't lower themselves to appear with anyone who doesn't share their values, confining them to communicating with silos of others who agree with them - which ultimately drives them extra crazy as they all reinforce mutual delusions. They are obsessed with how things look to others; except they don't understand what other people see when they look at a stage with diverse views on it, projecting only what they themselves see, and driving themselves nuts. It is politically inept, guaranteed to keep them miserable and frustrated, and ultimately quite funny."

That's shockingly awful from SBS.

"I'm not an anti-semite, but..."

God thats depressing, men who rape don’t tend to be kind to the women in their lives. I remember reading an interview with the wives of some of the grooming gang perpetrators, force and sexual violence was common for them. It was awful.

I’m really disappointed in them, I used to donate to them but I can’t in good conscience do so again whilst thats their stance. I massively dislike this omicause shit.

As disappointing as it is to see the left taken over by Hamas enthusiasts, it's even worse when feminists do it. Like what even is this.

As a brown woman who used to admire SBS greatly I just want to say my feminism includes all women, I don’t care if they are Israeli or Palestinian, rape and violence against women is disgusting whatever the ethnicity or religion of the man that does it and the ethnicity and religion of the woman on the receiving end.

I’ve seen the rape denial and it’s abhorrent. No girl or woman should expect less sympathy or anger on her behalf because of her religion or ethnicity. This is where intersectionality has got us, hierarchies of rape.

I remember arguing about this with someone on here YEARS ago. I was trying to point out that whilst I completely got where it came from as a brown woman and I’ve experienced some of it I thought it was a blunt tool to understand disadvantage. It felt like there was so much missing from that analysis, it was really useful in terms of understanding prejudice in the workplace and Crenshaw really did useful work, but it expanded to a degree thats made it meaningless as a useful tool for feminists outside of very narrow analysis. I’m even more convinced of that now.

How hard is it to just say rape is wrong and there is never any good reason to rape, ever. They also turn a blind eye to Palestinian women talking about coerced sex to secure aid from Palestinian men. Something that again we know happens in war, but it will be ignored because they don’t want to confront the fact that some men on their “side” are just rapey fuckers and will rape any woman they can. Personally I find it much easier to sleep at night knowing I won’t let any rapist hide behind my skirts.

I don’t get this, SBS are fully aware of what kind of man will rape a woman, and they are fully aware of the devastation that rape causes, they are fully aware of the fact that women from conservative communities are less likely to report rape so will be fully fucking aware that a man who raped an Israeli woman is just as likely to be raping a Palestinian woman. It’s complete and utter brain rot. They used to be amazing, helping women who were some of the most vulnerable in society and least likely to go to the police and now they are basically rape apologists.

I'd urge everyone to watch this brief presentation from this years WDI conference by Lorraine Nowlin:

there's a small faction of GC feminism - all on far left

I think with the shutting down of WPUK there is no longer any left group that is GC. And this happened because AGCL was pressurising they for being too liberal!

I dont think SBS have ever been GC. Accepting the need for women only services (which I assume they do as a service provider) doesn't mean they are GC.

Their statement is will in line with many of their statements which are based on an anti imperilist, anti racist analysis.

I wasn't being flip in my earllier comment.

SBS has always been part of that left alignment.

What was shocking (an do wonder how much SM feminism has encouraged this) is that someone who claims in some way to be a feminist would abuse their position on the platform for a totally different reason to make a frankly student politics posturing gesture.

But then if you think of the factionalism in the Labour Party, it is closer to that. Long standing personal emnity, gets twisted into political statements.

Dont know if this will display but shows they are all convinced their role is to "educate" other silly apolitical feminists eg:

FiLiA was a perfect opportunity to educate and raise consciousness about Palestine and Gaza.

As feminists we are privileged to have large feminist spaces, something sadly unthinkable in too many countries across the globe. To have failed to use it for advancing feminist though and action on this is baffling. And yet again it falls on the shoulders of the most minoritised to stand and be brave in the context of the rise of the far right.

You have to click on all comments.
https://www.facebook.com/rahila.gupta/posts/pfbid07LbdkeLwWvyHktAxU2U4ycXvfEuDzDRnMNx1Kgm41bBQdKv5dMyWy9jAdMz4hzYSl

(By the way have seen other FB discussions that are much more name calling and just saying GC women are all right wing extremists.)

Not posting this to particularly make women target of criticisms but trying to make clear that the use of the word feminist has many, many meanings. But also that long before there was FWR on mumsnet, and all the court cases and controversies over TW impinging on women's rights, none of these established socialist feminists groups have taken part or been interested.

Is “intersectional feminism” the problem? Interesting question.

On the face of it, the groups that overtly proclaim themselves as “intersectional feminists” do seem to be aligned to the omnicause, and therefore predisposed to the “be kind” mantra of TWAW.

However, thinking about what intersectional feminism originally meant, there is no logic why it should be the problem. Why should a recognition that black women (or disabled women, or lesbian women…) face a double whammy of discrimination, on grounds of sex and race, automatically lead to a belief that “woman” is a mixed sex category?

I think it’s the expansion of the concept into broader assumptions. So here intersectionality dismisses rape of Israeli women because it’s applying racial hierarchies to a complicated conflict.

As I said I think it described something very useful but it’s being misapplied and muddled up with CRT. So men who are considered to be “victims” due to imperialist structures are less guilty and women perceived as “white” are seen as lesser victims. I think it’s a load of toxic and unhelpful shit personally.

Probably a bit like gentle parenting, it means whatever I want it to mean.

Yes, so it’s the expansion and mission creep that is the problem rather than the initial concept.

Rape is never excusable.

agree that intersectional feminism isn't the problem, it is a misunderstanding of what intersectional feminism is that may be a problem.

I'm not really up on all the factions etc, but if SocFem takes its priorities in that order, i can only assume there are some synapses firing incorrectly, or not firing at all, that is an issue. They don't seem to understand that Socialism is basically feminism but doesn't centre women in the way feminism does? maybe. Not sure.

I don't comment on the issue of Gaza because i have understanding and empathy with several different views on different sides of that conflict. I also despise several different views on different sides of that conflict. But i will always prioritise women. Always.

Yeah, I had a think about it, when I first came across Crenshaw her framework articulated something I think that many of us have clearly experienced. So yup perhaps intersecting two specific characteristics makes sense.

So SBS when it was initially set up looked at ethnicity and access to domestic violence services. If they had stopped there they would have been absolutely fine and broadly right. But again not entirely, whats true of black women may not be true for say Japanese women, I think it described a very specific problem for black women and I’m not sure it translates equally to all ethnic minority women,( assumptions about levels of aggression, intelligence etc)

Great post. Has clarified some of my thinking around the limitations of intersectionality in feminism.

'it’s the expansion and mission creep that is the problem rather than the initial concept.'

People tend to seek power. Some will always twist good ideas into tools for seeking power; that inevitably and probably quite logically includes ideas about questioning power or redistributing power, or shifting power.

I also want to clarify that I genuinely think that the black female experience is substantively different from the asian female experience and further there are sub groups, a black somali woman experiences a different cultural environment vs a black afro-Caribbean woman. Thats why I think intersectionality is a blunt tool. I think it undermines the specific struggles each group faces with both their own communities and the wider community. Conflating the two is political rather than honest imo.

Quite, the whores of Arabs indeed.

I'm far from a scholar of this, but I'd imagine 'intersectionality' was supposed to be a process of considering different nuances, rather than what some people have tried to make it into - which is a kind of clumsy point scoring system.

"there's a small faction of GC feminism - all on far left - that simply can't compute anyone being on stage with someone they disagree with".

That is literally the left for you. You are with them, until you are not. And then not are you only not with them, you are a Nazi, and your opinion on all other topics are void.

I remember SBS having huge kudos.

For ref, considering they claim to represent minorities oppressed women, I did a few searches on their website.

"Transgender"
Brings up an open letter to the Guardian (natch) asking for open debate on gender signed by founder Pragna Patel

https://southallblacksisters.org.uk/?s=Transgender+
Still these entries are from 2018. Positively TERF.

"Taliban"
Statements in support of Salman Rushdie and Geeta Sehgal. Not anything about The Actual Taliban and their specific attempts to erase women from public life
https://southallblacksisters.org.uk/?s=Taliban+

"Yazidi"
2000 Yazidi women are still said to be enslaved across the middle east.
A petition from 2017 and another from 2015 on '"Islam"' in scare quotes
https://southallblacksisters.org.uk/?s=Yazidi

"Uyghur"
Women from this community are being sterilised as part of Chinese population policy to control it's growth as a minority.
No results
https://southallblacksisters.org.uk/?s=Uyghur+

Reminds me of the Sisters Uncut website who said they were for anyone who identified as female but who would tell anyone who (identified as) a man to f*ck off , who had reams of intersectional pick me goodies about Boy lesbianism, and Palestinian activists (who I'm sure would have been TOTES on board with the T stuff 🥴) but who, in all their list of injustices affecting the non men community, couldn't even bring themselves to mention The Taliban.

it is a really interesting concept, and a useful tool.

My personal experience is that it is often used to tell white women who are feminists (as opposed to White Feminism) to STFU. So i always approach with caution.

I listen, i hope, rather than talk.