Isn't this mixed sex then?

[ChestInflection]

https://www.plymouth.ac.uk/whats-on/girls-into-ocean-science

If it's for anyone who "identities as female" then it's not specifically for WAGs?

Oh that’s awful. Yes definitely mixed sex. It’s hard to understand the logic there.

Yes it's mixed sex

fuckwits

Such a weird premise.

Why not put on an event for all young people then? I wonder what research inform s lumping these groups together and how the proposed itinerary and speakers specifically target those (I think conflicting or different) needs.

Surely it's discrimination against young male children who don't identify as women or don't want to have to say they do to get to go?

And it ruins the assumed original intent.

Yes.

They cannot exclude any boys from the event.

What a crying shame. Sounds like a wonderful, exciting event that could arouse a passion for science in girls who’d previously found it boring. Even an openly mixed-sex group could be useful.

But expressly inviting young men who are trans-identifying, or just enjoy invading women’s privacy (a common reason for men to pretend to be trans), is a dirty trick to play on these young women.

It does sound good and a valuable opportunity but I such glaring lack of insight or critical thinking is off putting

Seems like every young person can just say they are Non Binary and go along. How are they going to check?

They have to allow all men to attend whether anyone checks or not.

You can't provide a service for all women but only some men.

Presumably you could also just say you identify as female. What possible bar could they impose on that?

Someone should have told them you can't 'identify' as female, either your born female or your not. I wonder if someone identified as a fish, would they let him jump overboard.

There is an email address on the webpage.
How about sending them some brief, polite emails pointing out that Girls into Ocean Science is a misleading and inaccurate title for an event which is
Designed for young women, those who identify as female, and non-binary students in Years 10, 11 and 6th form
in other words, for everybody, male or female.
Young People into Ocean Science would be a more truthful title.

Yep
Mixed sex but they’re really just discriminating against boys
I hope some boys sign up to this and stand their ground

Went on holiday near Plymouth recently. Felt it was heavily into the blue hair/trans/I need a walking cane for support young people.

Exactly

Honestly, why does this program need to be sex/gender exclusive at all? It's not like it's a sleep away camp or an athletic program or something it is a single day event with activities around ocean science. Surely all kids would enjoy and benefit from it.

Well, it appears to be designed to redress an imbalance between the sexes in the student body.

I run a charitable programme which donates hefty sums of money to Plymouth. I will definitely be talking to my contacts there about this.

Well, I would guess that women are underrepresented in this very specific field of STEM (as they historically have been in STEM more generally) and that they felt it was important for girls and young women to hear from and see older women succeeding in this field.

I imagine that's where this started.

How that then leads to it also being a day for boys and young men who say that they identify as female (but no other males), and how hearing from women who have succeeded in this field specifically assists them, I am less clear on.

It seems likely that there are very few trans people in this niche corner of science as there are proportionally very few of them anywhere, but even if increasing those who identify as trans working in this field was a particular concern, I'm not sure why that aim would be met by hearing from inspiring women specifically. I would probably carve a different day that appealed to their specific identified needs (if I were that way concerned).

This comes across as a mess.

It's indirectly discrimnatory and they are breaking the law, since they allow 'anyone who identifies as female' which can only mean TiMs. That means they are discrimnating against non-trans identifying males - who could sue them and probably win.
What numskull thought that was a good idea? Did they show it to their legal dept?

I'm sure the idea is, as PPs have pointed out, to attract more girls and young women into an area where they are underrepresented.
The title 'Girls into Ocean Science' is pretty clear about that.

I'm not sure, but I think the aim of 'Advancing equality of opportunity for women' is one of the exceptions to the EA which allows an event to be women only.
So there shouldn't be a problem with the University organising a 'Girls into Ocean Science' event for just girls.

The problem is that they haven't applied that part of science which defines what a 'girl' is!

And another problems is they aren't allowed admit some males, because they identify as female, but not any other male who doesn't.

In short, they don't seem to understand the Equality Act.

I hear what you're saying and I made that assumption as well, but are women actually under representated in marine biology and ocean sciences?

Women now outnumber men in terms of college enrollment (at least here in the US), so if it is true I doubt that will be the case much longer. Also, why is this still an issue anyway? Why aren't there all these programs to encourage men to enter more historically-female careers like education, health care, and social work? I get that some STEM careers pay more and so it has to do with reducing the pay gap, but here in the US, all three of those female-centric jobs out-earn marine biologists on average (according to chat). The big STEM money is in computers and engineering you'd be shocked at how little people who work in natural sciences are paid, male or female.

I guess my point is they're wokeness isn't just nonsensical frankly it's kind of unnecessary. In this particular case, I just think - just make it open to everyone.

ThatZanyFatball I guess my point is they're wokeness isn't just nonsensical frankly it's kind of unnecessary. In this particular case, I just think - just make it open to everyone.

OK but the point is that their nonsensical wokeness in promoting more girls in ocean science isn't even doing that, because they define 'girl' as 'anybody'.

The spirit of the Supreme Court ruling is that if you say something is for women or girls, the biological definition of sex is what counts. So if this University entitles something 'Girls into...', it should be for girls.

They could just hold an open day for everyone, as you suggest, but maybe they don't fell the need to encourage recruitment in general.

Women continue to be very underrepresented in STEM jobs in the UK - less that 30%, a lot less in some areas - and progress is very slow, creeping up at such a slow pace that equality seems unachievable.

I see a previous post of mine is being examined by MNHQ - no idea why, I can't think what I said that merited hiding, but hey, they have their procedures and they have to keep an eye on what's said, for a range of reasons, so I'll wait patiently for my post to appear

OK but the point is that their nonsensical wokeness in promoting more girls in ocean science isn't even doing that, because they define 'girl' as 'anybody'.

Agree with you 100% on this. For me it almost feels as if, rather than just be inclusive of everyone - which imo would be the best thing to do if their goal is really to promote this branch of science amongst young people - they go out of their way to be all virtue-signaling by making it exclusive but just so they can wave their trans flag not bc they actually care about women in STEM. Like frankly the goal of the program isn't to promote girls in STEM it is to make a point about trans ideology. I don't deny this at all.

Reminds me of this - https://www.npr.org/2023/10/05/1203845886/women-tech-conference-men-grace-hopper

Same problem but for the tech industry.

BTW the hiding of my previous posts was just a glitch😇
MNHQ responded to my query immediately with an explanation and apology. Fair play to yiz, as we say here

Their criteria actually excludes some women that don’t call themselves women.