Hampstead ponds

[Ariana12]

https://hampstead-heath-bathing-ponds.commonplace.is

Here's a link to the consultation. By way of recap: there are 3 ponds run by the City of London: in theory male, female and mixed. Although in practice they are male, mixed and mixed as the Kenwood Ladies pond is in fact open to TiMs. The City, instead of applying the Supreme Court ruling is having a consultation..doesn't seem to be limited to people living in the vicinity.

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Yes, but I would guess that they will analyse the results by local and non local respondents, as well as age , frequent / non frequent , woman / trans woman etc

And know that there will be political responses from GC and TRAs alongside users and potential users of the ponds.

It is a lie that Trans Identified Females (trans men) have been allowed to use the Men’s pond. It has never been allowed, the police and security guards were called when it was tried. They are reinventing history in an attempt to sound more reasonable.

The protest back in 2018:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/female-campaigners-selfidentify-as-men-to-infiltrate-male-only-pool-at-hampstead-heath-a3850556.html

A couple of quotes (my bolding):

"At first, the men at the pond were furious shouting at us and really getting very angry. However, once we stated that we 100 per cent agreed with them, they were curious and the vast majority were supportive"

"There were some men annoyed because they felt their privacy had been invaded and some who were concerned about photography."

No shit Sherlock!

[policeman] "...you can't enter a facility designated for the opposite sex, and if this occurs with men in the women's ponds we'd deal with that too."

Er, really??

I remember being part of the original group that was planning on going topless to the ponds and "identifying as a man". If a man (or woman) is a feeling in our heads and we mustn't judge people based on their appearance, I very much feel we need to revisit this as a protest.

Completed, but I couldn't quite get my head around the question regarding allowing trans people to use the pond which they 'identify' with but be banned from the changing room they 'identify' with.

Are they one sex when submerged in water but another one when they are dry?

I can understand it being an option, as it is being in a woman's changing room with someone born male that is the largest objection. However it is wholly impractical and so I objected to it.

The postcode part is normal for surveys.

It is particularly ridiculous as an option because one of the fabulous freedoms of the Ladies Pond is that traditionally women have sunbathed topless or naked free of the male gaze. So as undressed as in a changing room. But not as trapped in / in close proximity, I suppose.

Two of the three women I have met who go or have gone regularly to the Ladies Pond have said they welcome being able to sunbathe topless without male attention, put in more blunt terms though.

Have filled it in. Apart from quoting Schedule 3, I laid into them about antisemitism. Maybe they'll take more notice of that than just the pesky women complaining.

Thank you, filled it in, pointed out they have to follow the law and also that this consultation is pointless because they're not allowed to do most of these options so why even ask.

from GLP just now

"Hampstead ponds are the latest front in the rightwing backlash against trans people.

Trans women have been living their lives and swimming in the women’s pond for years. But the transphobic pressure group, Sex Matters, have threatened the City of London Corporation with legal action.

We’re standing with trans people against this hate and we need you to stand with us.

Once again, a tiny minority of extremists are stirring up hate. Once again, a tiny minority of bigots are threatening trans people’s lives.

We’re not having it. We will not sit quiet and watch them push trans people out of spaces where they’ve always belonged.

The far right is raising its voice all across the world. We need to stand together to show that tolerance and inclusion are stronger than hate. Are you with us?
"

🙄

Are they trying to drum up more crowdfunding, if this is an example of the narrative the opposition have been hoodwinked into believing, it's no wonder they're so rapid at the mouth,

'transphobic pressure group....', 'tiny minority of bigot's....' 'right wing....', they haven't missed a dog whistle and there's literally no truth to any of it.

So men now have 3 ponds but women only have 2?

You going to have explain the maths on that one. 🤔

Oh good LORD that lot can talk some bollocks.

Women wanting space away from men is not 'right wing'. That's like saying people not wanting to stick their hand in a mincer is 'right wing'. Just fuck off with that, these nut jobs are forcing sanity to be framed as the premise of the right. On their heads be that, they'll be sorry. And so will the bloody left if they continue to sit like muppets and allow it.

Women not pandering to men and being unwilling to undress around men is not 'hate' and is not 'bigoted'. Refusing to enable men in their fantasies is not 'hate' or 'bigotry' either. Those men can go and be women to their hearts content in the mixed sex space, they do not need to destroy the women's only space at all. The bigotry is all on the activist side who can't permit women rights or beliefs or cultural needs or anything else that involves not indulging and undressing for men on demand. Fuck off with that too.

'Inclusive..' Oh don't make me laugh.

The first job of a women's space is to be inclusive of all women. All of them. THe traumatised ones, the ones from religions you don't agree with , the ones with cultures that aren't yours, ALL WOMEN. And no women are men. Men pushing women out to play their immersive fiction games is ANYTHING but 'inclusive'.

My understanding is that women are not allowed in the male pond but can use mixed or female ponds . Men can use male and mixed sex ponds but if they say they are women they can use the female pond . Or have I misunderstood?

No, you're right. Men can use any pond they wish and feel most comfortable in, and which truly expresses their inner self, soothes trauma, etc etc.

Women can fit in around men and provide men with the experience of women, or they can fuck off and go without access at all.

And this is not, in lala land, batshit sexism and male supremacism.

If you let males into the female pond it is no longer the female pond it's a mixed sex pond, so women have no pond of their own and men do. There are 2 mixed sex ponds and 1 male only pond.

I heard something about this on the radio recently and the whole mess really saddens me. I haven’t actually swam in the ponds for many years although I did visit recently and thought how much more ‘developed’ they looked compared to when I was last there.

Call me a simpleton but is there some reason why it can’t just be a pond for those with born with a vagina, a pond for those born with a penis and a pond for everyone regardless of what they were born with and how they identify now? Isn’t that the whole basis of having 3 ponds at the very simplest level?

Thank you OP and apologies to you all for forgetting to mention this in my response to the consultation.

When I have suggested women only sessions at some of the 'wild saunas' that have started in recent years (for those that don't have them already), I have pointed out the faiths where sharing a sauna without men is required. Same applies to the open air ponds.

Opening the mixed pond in winter would achieve this.

I have filled this in.

Done!

Do Transmen use the men’s pond?

Not sure.

But the reality is that women (including Transmen) have not weaponised their bodies and attitudes against men in the way men (as a clad, not as all individuals) have against women.

No, “trans men” do not use the men’s pond so far. They are reinventing history and saying their policy has thus far been different to what it has in reality