Trans athletes should be able to compete in some women’s sports, suggests Nandy

[Nothernwannabe]

It’s an article in today’s Telegraph.

A slippery slope or just trying to distance herself from decisions made by sporting bodies?

I think you misread?

Yes, that's been sorted out upthread.

Lisa Nandy will be looking for a new job in a few years. She's getting her pitch in early so she can head a third sector bullshit generator organisation.

Just dropped council result.
Wigan Central (Wigan) Council By-Election Result:

➡️ RFM: 47.2% (New)
🌹 LAB: 32.9% (-15.3)
🙋 Ind: 6.7% (New)
🌳 CON: 5.1% (-9.4)
🌍 GRN: 4.4% (-2.1)
🔶 LDM: 3.7% (+0.2)

No Ind (-27.3) as previous.

Reform GAIN from Labour.
Changes w/ 2024.

Thanks fromorbit. But that is concerning on quite a few levels.

The Labour men too and yep.

Considering that even non athletic sports such as pool, snooker and darts have been proved to be affected by biological sex then I'd say the answer is still a big fat nope.

No

The North of England (and much else) is going to get wiped out by Reform at the next election, that's obvious. And Wigan would be a 'safer' Labour seat than many. And I worry how the country will be run, and both local and national level, by those fuckwits. All Labour MPs have a tough job to hang on to their seats. Some are daft enough to help Reform out with self-destructive behaviour.

Agree moto. Nandy and all the other TAs are simply handing the entire damn country over to Farage gift wrapped and with a nice bow on top. Just as Kamala Harris did for Trump. Are they really so distant from their voters that they can’t see this?

Don't forget non-physical sports such as chess, segregated by sex not gender. Most articles I found described these rules as "anti-trans" , but other articles point out that odds are stacked against women and girls. "The researchers considered how the important people in girls’ lives—coaches and parents—may be biased against them when assessing their potential, even at a young age, and how these perceptions may help explain the huge gender gap in who plays chess."

Also, on equestrianism - yes, women compete against men, and yes, they often win. But that doesn't mean that it's an equal sport. Anyone who rides will know that girls and women massively outnumber males as leisure riders, or in lower-level competitions. But this proportion is not reflected in elite competitions. There are many articles about this, e.g.

https://inside.fei.org/fei/sports-forum/2024/session-documents/session-six "While females make up around one-third of ranked athletes in Jumping, this percentage decreases sharply at the top levels. In the top 100, female representation dropped to 20% by 2022, and to just 6.8% in the top 30. A similar trend is observed in Eventing, where although women are the majority overall, their representation diminishes at the highest ranks, dropping from 72% overall to 53% in the top 30 in 2022."

https://theconversation.com/equal-but-not-the-same-equestrian-sports-unisex-approach-hides-inequity-64054

https://heelsdownmag.com/why-arent-more-women-on-the-podium/

It's not entirely clear why this is, but a variety of factors have been suggested, including sponsorship preferences for men, time off for pregnancy and motherhood for women (which can sometimes affect eligibility), periods and the standard uniform of white breeches.

Anecdotally, I'd add that there are some preferences amongst horse-riders, in that many women are more interested in horses as pets to nurture, and men tend to be more competitive. (The reasons for this would be material for a study!) Then, it's a dangerous sport, and it's well known that men tend to be braver or more reckless; also, many women I know are less brave after having children.

I've never riden a horse, I did sit on one for a couple of hours and tried not to bother it too much, but strength must play a part? Probably depending on how biddable the horse is. Aforementioned horse tried to ignore me too but trying to drag its head round when it was determined to snack on a hedge....! I was instructed, otherwise I'd have been happy to let him munch.

@lcakethereforeIam strength can help to compensate for ability at lower levels, but at higher levels probably not. I'm nowhere near that level so can't comment from experience . It's more about technique, balance, accuracy of aids, training of the horse, rapport with the horse...

Me and this horse definitely didn't have rapport. He didn't laugh at a single one of my jokes.

I have rapport with my horse. But he still thinks he's the boss!

What is stopping her? She has been an MP for 15 years.

Utterly spot on

i cannot get hold of the full article but from the abstract I think the authors are being set up a little.

I have some basic knowledge of sports and exercise science and the following would need to be addressed before I will begin to entertain the idea that TW have no advantage over females

1. The strength testing will fall within the well documented equivalent range for females of age and height. An easy test is grip strength, as a predictor for overall upper body strength
2. Functional testing.. and easy one is distance of throwing a tennis ball/or jumping from a static spot.
3. Cardiovascular fitness should start with V02 and be compared to already measured norms.
4. I want to hear about the advantages in sport regarding the lack of the Q angle and the Carrying angle. It’s never addressed. Also bone health because I suspect that the TW will be at risk when playing sport by having stronger muscles than females but less strong bones.

Note all of these should Be tested in isolation away from females and discussion should be in the literature about how the TW don’t know the norms (which is why the grip strength test is so consistent because they can’t see the measure)

Finally, I don’t care about fat distribution it has much less to do with athletic ability so it’s suspicious they report on it.

Of course she does, and they wonder why Labour is hemmhoraging votes!

@DuesToTheDirt the men in show jumping absolutely amaze me. I rode recreationally at 3 different yards over a 10 year period and rarely came across men or boys riding.

Where do the top men just appear from?
Someone did suggest they were seriously moneied families who never venture near a riding school or livery yard.

But that still doesn't explain them out riding the equally moneied females

Some of the UK showjumpers are basically following the family business. For example just how many Whitakers are there and why are they all world class showjumpers?

The Whitakers probably have the babies on horses when they are tiny tiny and no fear.

And it won't matter if the kid only sits on the pony for 5mins. They'll keep doing that every day because they can!