Bristol Council insists women be called ‘people with ovaries’

[IwantToRetire]

The comments were made in a 39-page response to a consultation by the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) on updates to its guidance, following the ruling that sex in equality laws refers to biological sex.

It wrote that “not all pregnant individuals would use the pronouns ‘she/her’” so it could lead to “emotional and psychological distress” for “trans men, non-binary, gender diverse or intersex individuals”.

“We strongly advise the use of more inclusive language such as using ‘they/them’ to refer to all individuals, or include other identities to reflect the diversity of individuals who access maternity or paternity services,” officials said.

“This could include ‘people with ovaries’ or the term ‘people who use paternity services’. We also recognise that individuals may not identify with the word maternity and prefer paternity as it is gender neutral.

“Additionally, it is unclear what support will be available to trans people who chest-feed to ensure they are protected from discrimination.”
Protections based on biological sex are “too vague”, the response added, as: “It is unclear whether it refers to anyone capable of pregnancy, or only those who were assigned female at birth.”

Council officials complained that the new guidance implies that “trans women are not ‘really’ women” and risked “creating a hostile environment in public services”.

Full article at https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/22/council-says-women-called-people-with-ovaries/

And at https://archive.is/TOgKA

But the guidelines don't only exist in my mind, and I'm starting to be quite concerned about your lack of knowledge and understanding of ethics, if you really are a midwife working in the NHS.

www.nhs.uk/tests-and-treatments/consent-to-treatment/

Defining consent
For consent to be valid, it must be voluntary and informed, and the person consenting must have the capacity to make the decision.
The meaning of these terms are:

• voluntary – the decision to either consent or not to consent to treatment must be made by the person, and must not be influenced by pressure from medical staff, friends or family
• informed – the person must be given all of the information about what the treatment involves, including the benefits and risks, whether there are reasonable alternative treatments, and what will happen if treatment does not go ahead
• capacity – the person must be capable of giving consent, which means they understand the information given to them and can use it to make an informed decision

https://www.cqc.org.uk/guidance-regulation/providers/regulations-service-providers-and-managers/health-social-care-act/regulation-11

• When a person is asked for their consent, information about the proposed care and treatment must be provided in a way that they can understand. This should include information about the risks, complications and any alternatives. A person with the necessary knowledge and understanding of the care and treatment should provide this information so that they can answer any questions about it to help the person consent to it.

I'd definitely screen for HPV by vaginal swab with some regularity.

Given the data coming out I think the idea that doctors have decided it’s best may be a little premature

I do think there are a few people for whom surgery might be appropriate but given the Alzheimer’s patients looking for their lost genitals , the lack of improvement in mental health , the number who change their minds - I suspect doctors will be changing their own minds soon enough

Doctors have decided as a whole that gender affirming surgery is not only ethical, it is the only right thing to do for people who want it.

I suggest you read 'Time to Think' by Hannah Barnes.

Taking your posts and face value and on the basis that you are sincere, I think your problem might be that you don't know what you don't know.

Without wishing to cast aspersions on anyone on posting not his thread, I suggest you seek advice from somebody who you know to be a doctor.

Some of them clearly do believe it will change or has changed their sex.

Their doctor has a professional duty to make sure they understand the following things BEFORE they agree to do the surgery:

• it will result in total and permanent loss of fertility and sexual function;
• it has a high complication/failure rate and they may need multiple follow up surgeries to try to make the end result acceptable;
• there is no guarantee that the end result will ever be acceptable;
• it may cause urinary and/or fecal incontinence;
• it may make it difficult or impossible to attract sexual partners in the future;
• they will need to inform all potential sexual partners about it in advance, as if it were an incurable STD;
• it will not have an impact on whether they are able to "pass" as the opposite sex in everyday life;
• it may not alleviate their dysphoria;
• it will not change their sex; and
• it will not guarantee their entitlement to access, either now or in the future, single sex spaces for the opposite sex.

If the patient understands all of these things and is an adult with a fully developed brain and has been judged to be mentally competent and capable of giving informed consent after undergoing a rigorous psychiatric assessment, then and only then should the doctor agree to operate.

But that's not what happens, is it?

Don't be daft!

We all know you are talking about women who don't like to think of themselves as women. Men, clearly cannot give birth and wouldn't require maternity services, would they? And I for one do not have an 'anti man' agenda. i like men, generally, but I just don't want them intruding upon facilities set aside for the privacy and dignity of women and girls. All good, decent men understand this, anyway.

I dont have to read the article because I know I could get a sex change if I wanted to right now regardless of what Hannah has to say about it

Well I might, obviously I wouldn't have done that before as it hadn't occurred to me that there might be a reason for screening if I no longer have a cervix

I have no idea why aspersions come into it, I read a thread which has alerted me to something I had no idea about. Surely that is a positive and not a problem?

We are only speaking about trans men and non binary people whi can conceive because I rose the topic. You'd still be talking about the possibility of men coming to breastfeeding classes if it wasnt for me pulling this back around to what is actually relevant in maternity care.

There's no such thing as a sex change.

You can read up online about vaginal swabs for HPV.

If i call it that, then the surgery id have to create a penis and remove my breasts absolutely would be and there is nothing you can do about it

It's not an article.

It is a book, and the investigation carried out by Hannah Barnes contributed to the closure of the Tavistock clinic.

You really aren't coming across as a midwife working in the NHS, or as somebody who even lives in the UK if you aren't aware of any of this.

Have you ever seen a picture of a phalloplasty? Would you really call that a penis?

No wonder maternity care in the UK is in such a state.

Thank you, obviously I've never done that because I just believed the medical advice I was given. I will check it out.

David Lammy, for one.

Wasn't casting aspersions on you at all.

I just think that you are getting advice from somebody who is presenting themselves as medically qualified, when they may not be.

Obviously we could all be lorry drivers called Steve having a break on the M4.

No, they don't and if they could where, conceivably, would it lead?

A neo vagina is technically a blind fistula not a functioning human organ

A male person with a neo vagina would not need cervical screening of course, nor the services of a gynaecologist or an obstetrician, as both of these specialists deal with the female reproductive system.

Well yes but obviously if I think I need this I have to speak to a HCP. I might give my DIL a call later, she's a doctor so she can advise me.

If this is a thing women need to be made aware of it.

It is re-assignment surgery, though, not gynaecology.

Not on the NHS, no.

@LoftyRobin
You appear to be just playing with words now. You admit it isn’t a sex change, and a few minutes later you state that it is if you say it is.

This is people’s bodies and lives. Material reality. We can play linguistics/post-modernism/queer theory/structuralism and post-structuralism as long as you like, but in the real world words need to have meaning.

LoftyRobin · Today 14:34

MissScarletInTheBallroom · Today 14:31
I'm talking about INFORMED CONSENT.
How can you give informed consent to having your genitals irreparably butchered if you mistakenly believe it will make you change sex?
Show quote history

Who says they believe it will change their sex. It is gender affirming surgery.

LoftyRobin · Today 14:49

MissScarletInTheBallroom · Today 14:48
There's no such thing as a sex change.
Show quote history

If i call it that, then the surgery id have to create a penis and remove my breasts absolutely would be and there is nothing you can do about it