“I’m transfer” teen at higher ed open day

[SallyDraperGetInHere]

I was manning a stand at a careers day this week. A teen came up to chat, and the first thing they said was ‘hi, I’m trans, and I just want to know, is this a sector where I’d be treated respectfully, or?’

First thing, before they even opened their mouth, it was clear to me that this was someone with something to say. They just stood out by their need to be heard.

Clearly a boy, 16-17, 5’10-11, wearing a uniform, stubbly, wearing a cap, bloke-y looking. A bit quirky.

My heart sank. He was on his own. Everyone else was in a group of 3-4. Clearly a kid without a friend.

I introduced myself; he told me his name was Melanie.

The fact that his very first question was about his trans acceptance-ness - not about whether he was interested in x sector to work in - made me feel ‘Jesus, this is what you’ve defined yourself by’: I’m trans, not ‘I’m interested in mechanics/ engineering/ history/ being a chef.’

The colleague I was with swiftly moved to reassure him, with anecdotes of trans people she knows who work in this field.

I was just left with this feeling - you’ve latched onto this thing to create a new person for yourself. You’re not a girl; you’re just a lost boy. I can’t help you be a girl. Please don’t think this is your key to happiness.

Poor kid. Poor boy. Thinking that reinventing himself as Melanie was going to gift him acceptance.

I think the best reply would be,

”If you do your job well, respect others and focus on the task in hand, you’ll find that you’ll be respected whatever your private medical history.”

They need to get their heads out of their navels and start looking outwards.

If you're there representing that sector then the answer is clearly not. You've made all kinds of assumptions and extrapolations there.

@BlueEyedBogWitch has a much clearer answer.

Your colleague lied to him.

The fact is, there are numerous people in all walks of life who won't respect trans. With good reason.

Hmm.

i’m in two minds about this.

my DD is disabled and uses a wheelchair.
we know full well that some industries/jobs are more disability friendly then others.

she’d probably ask more politely - eg is this sector disability friendly - but she’d be asking the same question.

she’s got a physics degree and has faced some prejudice both at uni and outside (she is a very good singer and sings with choirs).

so… I can’t fault them for asking.

(quite irrespective of my opinions on the whole trans thing)

The only assumption is that for this person, the most important thing in their life is their made up identity. Not whether they have an interest in or aptitude for the work.

I wonder how many people with other identities would introduce themselves like this and what response they'd expect?

hi, I’m a Jehovah's witness, and I just want to know, is this a sector where I’d be treated respectfully, or?’

'hi, I’m a goth, and I just want to know, is this a sector where I’d be treated respectfully, or?’

'hi, I’m a Reform voter, and I just want to know, is this a sector where I’d be treated respectfully, or?’

I wouldn't read too much into it. In a stressful situation some people get worked up over what's really a trivial detail and focus on that.

BlueEyedBogWitch's answer is probably best followed by a quick shift to "Now, what interests you most about doing mechanical engineering / becoming a pastry chef, Melanie?"

Poor lad. I expect that interaction was the highlight of his day.

It's immediately confrontational. It's looking for a reaction.

You either pander to it immediately or you end up with him starting a fight. It's a dynamic of imposing his power and dominance from the start.

Tbh the best response is precisely to say "I'm not interested in identity. We are focused on getting people who are interested, engaged and hard working. If you are all those things then we are the right match and we look after all our staff equally and ensure they all feel happy in their working environment".

At this point if he starts kicking off, you say that you have policies in place to ensure that everyone's rights are respected but we otherwise leave politics at home because it can cause conflict in the office and being able to work in a team is an essential part of the job. There possibly will be times when you will have to work with people with views you don't like but the point is that everyone has to put that aside and get on with the task at hand. Everyone must be treated with respect and you have a zero tolerance policy in place for anyone who doesn't.

This is precisely the problem in the workplace. It is not like being disabled and needing certain accommodations. If you are trans, you just need to get the fuck on with the job. This is the one area where yes it is, 'just like being gay'.

They know which toilets and changing rooms they need to use. They are just looking to cause trouble/see who will pander.

You don't want an employee you have to pander to or is looking to start fights before they've even got the job.

Anyone on a careers stall should be prepared for questions about diversity in their industry.

If there are specific sex-based realities in the line of work (ie dosimetry record differences for males and females on-site at nuclear power stations) then it's fair to point them out upfront, but for most workplaces you can just answer that a respectful workplace is a team effort.

I can easily imagine people asking all of those at a careers fair. It is important to work in a sector that lets you be you what that you maybe. For example medicine is a very difficult sector for jehovah witness people.

A specific question about how JW religious restrictions would be managed at work and what effect they would have is very different from "will I be treated with respect"?

What does "respect" mean? What does the candidate think it means? The
answers to "Will I be able to refuse to give blood transfusions and if I do how would that affect my career?" and "Will people get away with taking the piss out of my religion?" might be very different.

The Reform voters and the Goth are not protected characteristics, so not a comparison. However I think a Jehovah's Witness could well ask this question, and a black person might well also ask the same. It is a more important point than what they are interested in, because if they are not going to be treated equally and made welcome then their career prospects are reduced and actually there's no point in looking at the industry as a career. A sense of safety is surely the most important thing anywhere, including at work.

What you reply is less important than how you respond and act (because every employer will reply in the same way as your colleague). It sounds like you gave this student a really good taste of what it's like to work in your organisation as a trans person.

I’ve read on here that employers are quietly avoiding trans and NB applicants because they are so disruptive and demanding in the workplace. Yes ‘Melanie’ could have mis-spoke and may have a passionate interest in being a pastry chef/mechanical engineer/museum curator but I would worry he would disrupt every work group and co-opt everything to serve his identity. Red flag time.

Careers fairs are interesting because you’re there with multiple “hats” which come with different POVs: an individual/an employer/a sector or industry representative.

So as an employer the official answer is that “we follow equalities law” and “everyone should be treated fairly and their needs are balanced when they come into conflict” “speak to HR if you want more detail - now can I interest you in our eg engineering jobs?”

As a sector rep it might be something about the current demographic. Eg for engineering it might be about the white male majority but there are initiatives and bursaries etc to improve representation of other groups.

As an individual - which is where probably id self censor but I’d be itching to say - mostly all your employer will care about is how well you do your job and turn a profit for the company. But as a member of a minority group you will stand out and therefore receive more scrutiny by default - so you’ll have to be twice as good to succeed. It will be a marathon and not a sprint. It might take about 25 years before you know how it’s worked out - lots of women in male dominated industries historically burn out and off-ramp mid to late career. Although Ive recently heard of a young Muslim woman who took out huge student loans and trained to be an engineer before realising she can’t do the job because she can’t be alone with males. Either no one thought to point this out or it was considered taboo to say it (which is worse imo)… I’ve no idea what the situation will be for trans people but I’d caution against making that your USP in the workplace - better for your career to be seen as very competent and (for promotion purposes) amenable. So I’d suggest you make sure to choose a job you love and are good at, and that you can deal with the everyday tasks that come with it eg if you hate public speaking then maybe don’t be a barrister or court advocate. Choose something you’ll enjoy doing every day and be mindful that many well paid jobs are because they come with heavy workloads and high stress.

That’s what I’d like to say - but obviously reserve that for my own kids. I’d probably just say the latter couple of sentences and smile a lot

There's an extremely good chance he's autistic and that's why he's struggling so much with his identity/friendships and why it's such a big thing to him.

I'd have said 'Are you interested in X Melanie because that will be the biggest factor in getting a role in this industry'. It's a ridiculous question really because how can you be expected to answer for the whole sector! If he's really interested though and is autistic you could almost certainly expect him to talk at you for the next half an hour all about it!

Of course it's all a big performance and what he leads with because it's all about forcing acceptance onto people. A Jehovah's witness may possible ask a question about the issues with becoming a doctor but I really wouldn't expect it in such an upfront and in your face way.

It's bordering on rude really isn't it? But that may be more down to having poor social skills and being autistic. I would imagine Melanie is going to struggle hugely getting a job and that that will unfortunately be much more due to their poor social skills/autism than it will be due to thinking they're trans. Being trans will probably give him a more comfortable scapegoat to blame it all on though.

Clearly not what? The OP didn't ask a question.

The answer to the young person's question about the sector.

TBH if I was an employer and a prospective employee started wanging on about being transgender before anything else i.e. talking about the job/qualifications etc. I would not even consider taking them on, I would think they would be a HR nightmare.

Did you happen to see what toilet he used?

I wasn’t there as an employer, more a person from the sector. It’s actually a fairly liberal sector, not one of the more formal professions like law or finance. I was questioning my own response, hence putting up the post to get the views of others.

His tone wasn’t in any way confrontational, but it being the first thing he said, I felt a bit disarmed. He was looking for reassurance, and underlying that was seeking validation. Definitely wanted to have an adult say positive things.

I definitely hadn’t prepared for the question, and as I’m not recruiting myself, don’t often come across situations where I’d anticipate questions around inclusion. It did make me reflect.

It was a school-age event so there were awkward teens, chatty teens, overbearing teens, avoid-eye-contact teens, and then this person stood out because he came across as lonely and not fitting in. He made a funny pun, and was conversational, but awkward. My colleague asked him what age he was, and he said ‘the worst age. 16.’

No.

I completely understand your assumptions about his having decided to be trans to distance himself from the friendless boy who struggles that he thought he was. You only saw him for a very short time so it is an assumption, but I get why you made it. My dc have several trans friends and it seems blindingly obvious with the two TIMs that this is what being trans does for them. They use it as a claim to cover up their lack of social skills and give themselves a story that seems like it has a happy ending - if only people would accept them as women. But they haven’t clicked that it isn’t gender that puts most people off them.