Rising Christian nationalism: a threat to us all

[IwantToRetire]

Article by Humanist UK, so doesn't really reflect on the impact on women although does mention abortion rights.

But I do think that our politics are far more influenced by the US, not for any deep reasons, but so much of our TV is now americanised.

And some of the fundamentalist UD christian groups have very regressive attitude towards women.

https://humanists.uk/2025/09/17/rising-christian-nationalism-a-threat-to-us-all/

I thought the message at the Tommy Robinson rally was peculiar. Anyone who pays any attention knows that most white British people are not practising Christians and that the people most likely to practise Christianity in the UK are those of African or West Indian heritage. So try squaring that circle, Tommy.

US cultural attitudes are having a big influence over here, it's true - see the rise of identity politics. So I'm not ruling out a rise in Christian evangelism. But it would mean reversing the direction of travel over the past 50 years.

I have attended several church services very recently they are pro trans, pro Palestine and there is very little praying for Christian’s who have been murdered. Personally i think it was too liberal, and i say that as someone who agrees with homosexuality and abortions.

However the positive messages and community may be a life line for the elderly and people who are lonely. Coffee mornings, music, meetings etc would give people something to look forward to and enjoy the company of others.

What I noticed was everyone is welcome regardless of belief and no one was forced to sing or pray. You could just observe, were given a warm drink and the elderly were assisted if needed. If an elderly person didn’t show up someone would check they were not in need of assistance. If someone is unwell they will visit them or pick up groceries. Even bring them to the service if needed.

Maybe church would help with the loneliness and isolation. Christian values are positive values. People are forgiven. You can atone for things you have done wrong. You take care of you family and your friends. But I think there needs to be more focus on caring for the people you know first. Those you can make a true difference to.

I think the churches encouragement to take part is good for lonely or isolated or shy people as anyone can play a part in running a coffee morning or reading a prayer or handing out bibles - this may give people confidence or purpose.

We are in a secular country and no religion should be above criticism and no one should be put in prison or sacked for criticism of any religion.

But after attending several services I think it’s positive and I hope people do attend services and add value to their community. (I attend for the live music).

( I can see why the church have embraced Trans as it suggests believers think your soul and body are separate entities). But I also know from friends who attend weekly that church numbers are rising.

I struggle to see how the fact that a significant minority of the UK population are a problem due to drugs, the crime they commit etc, and the fact that our version of capitalism is failing, is comparable to literal government and widespread societal support for FGM, cousin marriage, death to gays and deeply misogynistic ideas pushed on all women and girls.

One child focused service had risen from 20 to 70 in 12 months (July 24 to July 25) - which they are shocked by. This predates Tommy Robinsons rally.

However when people cannot afford to do day trips and eat out or watch bands - church is sociable and affordable for all. Fish and chip nights, quizzes, choir. All accessible and friendly and low cost.

What is Christianity if not another religion imported from the middle east via a bunch of Romans that came over the channel in small boats hundreds of years ago.

They invaded and forced us to convert, albeit syncretically, by renaming our pagan festivals. They then chased all our "priestly" class onto the isle of Angelsey and murdered them!

This is what makes me laugh whenever people start banging on about Christian nationalism.

Do you have any evidence that most Muslims support these ideas?

My take is that there are two things going on here.

(1) More and more white Brits are embracing Christianity, I supect in no small part due to the world getting more and more confusing, nasty and divided and they are drawn to something that is stable and gives them hope.

(2) [Much bigger, I believe] Lots of people (including me, someone who has despised Christianity since I was 8 or 10 and has pretty much always claimed to be a militant atheist) are beginning to realize that the liberal, friendly, polite, democratic British culture I love does owe an awful lot to Christianity, and when my culture feels under threat I need to protect Christianity as well, and not just the other aspects of my culture. Even as a militant atheist I have come to realize in the last year or so that Christians preaching on the streets are - in the scheme of things - my allies.

We are talking about culture.

I don't believe that the average iranian is a massive fan of extremist islam, let alone the average British muslim... but that does not alter the fact that Iranian culture is what it is.

Cousin marriage - guardian article from 2001 so historic however no reason to believe it is untrue. Not just cousin marriages but Uncle to Niece is also discussed.

www.theguardian.com/society/2001/mar/14/guardiansocietysupplement6

Extract - This practice of wedding close relatives - known as consanguineous marriages - is common among Muslims all over the world, and particularly so in Britain. In Birmingham, almost 80% of arranged marriages in the 70,000-strong community are cousin-to-cousin or uncle-to-niece.
"I can name you at least 40 couples off the top of my head who are all in first-cousin marriages," says Raja, who is a community liaison officer for Birmingham city council. "It is such an important part of our culture. It has been practised since at least the 14th century. We do it because we believe it is important to keep a tight-knit, supportive family - especially here in Britain, where we need to keep our roots strong."

Um, you know Iran was only recently overtaken by a theocracy? A lot of islamic countries aren't free democratic societies with varying geo/socio political influences that prevent freedom so its inaccurate to judge individuals from the limitations of their government.

Namechangeragin said

However the positive messages and community may be a life line for the elderly and people who are lonely. Coffee mornings, music, meetings etc would give people something to look forward to and enjoy the company of others.

I think over recent decades part of the reason local communities have splintered and collapsed is because the local church and the local community are so linked, and people wanted nothing to do with the local church.

I think that part of what is going on now is that people are thinking "I need community, and if that means embracing cultural christianity then that is what I'll have to do". Maybe not consciously, but I believe this is a factor at play.

Trick or treat is only part of Halloween. You still have Halloween and all the rest of it.

The UK have always had Proms.

I am not judging individuals, I am judging cultures that are created, whether they are created by minorities or majorities.

I am perfectly prepared to believe that in a hypothetical world Islam and Christianity, Muslim countries and western liberal christian-originated democracies, can both be as good as each other.

On the other hand I believe that there are particular issues with regards the way the Koran is much more likely to be taken literally as written, and not considered and updated and applied with nuance as in Christianity, and I believe that there are reasons culturally why muslim countries often end up like Iran or Syria, whilst Christian-dominated countries often end up with liberal democracies.

@JamieCannister

Something is certainly happening and it predates the September rally. Church goers (a few churches) say it started late last year.

The Community centres are closing, a pint of beer is extortionate, music is missing, we don’t even talk to a shop assistant due to those bloody self serve machines. Youth clubs gone, library’s closing. A coffee is almost £5.

Streets full of those e scooters and teenage boys wearing Covid face masks still - presumably to avoid being spotted rather than the worry of giving Covid to their Grandmother.

Modern hymns, Plainsong, Latin music, well played instruments, amazing singers and bible stories with a cup of tea, a chat with a few friendly people and a donation that is not compulsory. Maybe it should be considered by lonely people as a way of being part of something. The buildings have history and are peaceful. You can learn to bell ring for free. Sing for free. Play your instrument. Singing helps mental health.

It was cool and rebellious to mock religion in the 1990s. Whenever I say I have attended service people are shocked - it appears its rebellious in the 2020s to attend church. How things change.

I agree. I think atheists dont really understand religion because there is something intangible about it. They go on about ' sky fairies' but dont appreciate that in a way whether God exists is irrelevant and not the most important thing about religious belief. It is the belonging to a community, having somewhere to go in times of trouble, the feel good factor of doing things for others. I suspect this fundamental misunderstanding of people with a faith has led to the rifts in the pro Palestine/trans movements. Atheistic trans rights underestimated the strength of religious belief of Muslims and thought their faith was just a silly backward minor issue that would all be forgotten about if only they were educated into the true religion.

Could the resurgence of Christianity in the UK be seen as, in part, a reaction to the increasing visibility and influence of Islam?

If we were transplanting entire populations then obviously that might happen particularly if there were the same geo political pressures but we aren't. We are talking about the types of numbers that aren’t enough to impact the overall prevailing culture that can be absorbed with time.

I agree. Muslim countries weren't always like this. There seems to have been a concerted effort ( and a lot of money) thrown around by hard-line Islamists ( the equivalent of the Christian fundamentalists) to take over countries and even Mosques in the West, often helped by the Western Left who ignore their close correlation with the Far Right. When I was a child I grew up in a very culturally mixed area. It was unheard of to see a Burkha outside of Kensington where all the Arabs lived. No children wore the Hijab. I dont think Christians are as wedded to that type of influence by small fundamentalist religious groups. The US bible belt is made up of the descendents of the puritan weirdos kicked out of Europe in the first place!

If you are only talking about recent wester culture (post 1990s?) then that is something ephemeral.

Alphabet people? How rude.

You're not wrong, OP. Religious fundamentalism of any kind is dangerous.

I’ve been saying for a while that the country is worse off now that hardly anyone goes to church on a Sunday.

People are lost without that sense of community.

"whilst Christian-dominated countries often end up with liberal democracies."

Not really the pattern of Europe until after the Second World War.

Maybe that is the strength of the particular kind of religion that has been imbedded in the British establishment over the last couple of centuries? Community and custom is more important than belief, which is a more personal matter.

On the other hand America was built on the kind of belief that gets you across oceans and mountains.

For whatever reason, over the last 500 years or so Christian countries have done much better at scientific and cultural develoment, as well as elevting the living standards of all, compared to muslim one. Over a shorter period we have created liberal democratic countries with lots of women's rights. Meanwhile, as a rough rule of thumb, I would suggest that women's rights in many muslim countries are much worse than they were in the west before liberal democracy

I'm not sure Christian nationalism would appeal to really hard core far right people. The ones I knew way back were either atheist or they adhered to German or Scandinavian religion as practiced by their Anglo Saxon ancestors - iirc.
Hitler was nominally a Christian but really a functioning atheist. He called Christianity ' that old Jew story'. You won't be talking to an NF or BNP head for very long before all the anti semitic stuff comes out , despite all the Israeli flags btw.

Therefore....I predict a split at some point. It's hard to see the Tommy mob fitting into the C of E anyway. Maybe some would go for hellfire Pentecostal stuff. But I'm not really seeing it.