The specific bit about the SC ruling/single sex female only spaces:
JR: Opinionpollcatcat says it's been five months since the Supreme Court ruled that sex in the Equality Act means biological sex. Why does the NHS still operate policies that state that male adults and children will be admitted to female wards, changing areas and toilets if those male people identify as trans, and she works in an NHS Trust where that's still happening.
WS: So I don't think it should be happening, and we’re still waiting for the EHRC guidance, but on single sex spaces, before we get to the gender identity issues, on single sex spaces, more generally, are seeing far too many breaches. I mean, Karin Smyth, the Minister for Secondary Care, is all over this, because even if put to one side the gender identity issues, there are far too many cases of men and women being on the same ward, and it's not appropriate, dignified or safe. So we've got to deal with that. That is often about capacity constraints, resources. So I've got to be honest with people watching, it's going to take time to eliminate that, but the objective is to eliminate it. Then we get onto the gender identity issues. Now I think this is primarily an issue about women's rights, voices and spaces, that's where the real tension and conflict has arisen, and so we've got to make sure that the guidance has real world application. I don't think anyone, for example, would think it desirable for a trans man, so someone who's born female, but to all intents and purposes, you know, hairy arms, beard, voice, identity, then wanders into women's toilets or goes to a women's ward or another women's space. I think that would be undignified and unpleasant for everyone concerned, this is really about women's rights, voices and spaces. That's where I think we've got to try and find a way to make sure that trans women are a space that is dignified and safe and inclusive for them, that doesn't impact on women's sex based rights and spaces…
JR: That sounds like third spaces?
WS: I think, I think for trans women, yes, I think that is where we're looking. And I know there will be lots of people, probably some Mumsnet users, and there'll be lots of people in the LGBT community and allies who would say that that's outrageous, I can't believe you're even saying that, and you're a gay health secretary, how could you countenance this? I'm trying to find a way through on this that maybe not everyone loves, but everyone can live with and treats people with dignity and respect. And I think where this conversation went so badly wrong was a lack of understanding of why, in a women's rights context, the majority of our population who fought for generations for those rights, voices and spaces feel strongly about protecting them. And I think the, you know, I understand obviously, you know, being a gay man the context of LGBT equality and the struggles that our community has been through. But I don't think there's been nearly enough dialogue, empathy and understanding for different perspectives. I think we're getting to a better place as a country now, and if we can do that in a way that's level headed, rational and considerate and compassionate, I think we'll be in a better place and will arrive at common sense.