NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #53

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected].

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025
Thread 52: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403218-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-52 2 September 2025 to 4 September 2025

If Fife doesn't cover their costs then it's likely they can turn to their unions, BMA and RCN for representation. This usually includes free legal representation at tribunal, but the RCN refused to represent Sandie. This is why she is suing them.

When I was a union rep we represented everyone who was paid up, even racists being dismissed for racism and one man whonwas caught watching porn on the night shift. He was dismissed but he still had representation.

A manager is regarded as acting on behalf of their employer for pretty much anything they do in the course of their work no matter how ill-advised their actions and even if they are acting contrary to policy. Obviously, there are extremes where it doesn't apply, but in this case Searle, Currer and Davidson would definitely be regarded as acting on Fife's behalf.

I know, it’s so weird that this is the issue they abandon people on.

I suspect a lot of the ones answering pink will not be biological women..... (mine's blue - mindbending for performative femininity).

There are the captured and there are those who fear repercussions, which are never going to be proportionate.

Thanks for posting that @JudeyJudey

I did not expect Kate Searle to look like that…

(Yes, that was not how I had pictured her!).

Any one watch the Michael Foran podcast on the final day of the case.

yes! it was a nice surprise.
As ever a really good insight as my brain was overwhelmed on the last day of the shenanigans.
JR might be inept?

Yes! Happened to be on the laptop when it popped up live too. Glad he managed to fit that in with the new job. A reminder of just how weird that last day was. And the bizarre state it was all left in with that hanging amendment.

Perhaps true believers simply aren't good at arguing these cases. They're hamstrung by believing six impossible things before breakfast.

Michael’s analysis was so welcome as it gave such a clear explanation of that last day or two of the tribunal. The discussion regarding the ‘objectionable manifestation’ argument was really useful as the potential seriousness of the way that had been handled by JR passed me by at the time.

I missed the start of the recording, but will have another listen tomorrow as he really does explain things in such a helpful way.

Listening now, thanks for the tip off @Coffeeandcataddict

So I take from that the the GMC doesn't know whether a doctor is male or female, but they optimistically think that your local health provider will know?

That doesn't seem like a very robust system.

And doesn't leave me with any confidence.

Yes, I watched the recording late last night. It was helpful as I hadn't understood the detail of when the reference to objectionable manifestation slid in and out of the defence timeline (not massively unlike the way patient safety had appeared and reappeared in the disciplinary investigation!).

Apparently it was in the initial skeleton argument (that I don't think we have seen), but not explicitly brought up from then until the 11.30pm email sent on 1 September.

Ideally, I wish Charlotte Elves had addressed the tribunal on JR's timing, along similar lines that she addressed Fife's Sixth Best Method of Retrieving Upton's Phone Data. She could have argued that 11.30 pm on the penultimate day of the hearing was the Ninety-Seventh Best Time To Plead The Bananarama Defence.

Exactly. It's all hogwash isn't it ?

If I understood Michael Foran correctly - Jane Russell's argument was that it was Sandie Peggie's fault that she (JR) didn't plead Fife/Upton's case correctly. NC helpfully pointed out that the remedy was for Fife to sue her for professional negligence.

That's exactly what her argument was.

I loved that MF laid out all the times JR could have added an amendment, including when the judge asked her.

I know…. Was this due to incompetence or over confidence? It’s like JR was completely caught on the hop - but then idiotically decided to draw attention to this with the last minute application. Unless this is a desperate attempt to get grounds for appeal. The entire NHS Fife team have behaved abominably

Michael Foran's talk made me wonder what sort of case Jane Russell could make? The argument that its the way Sandie Peggie said things doesn't wash - because the one person known to have had an interaction with both her and Upton confirmed Sandie Peggie's case.

Another point he made very strongly about the late amendment to pleadings issue was that the judge would be appealed if he did not allow JR to amend it, and that he would be appealed (by SP) if he did and then found against her, whether or not he allowed witnesses to be recalled. So MF inclined to think that the sensible recourse for the judge would be to allow the amendment and then, if he wants to find for SP, to refuse further oral testimony. Then if SP wins, JR would have to find another ground for appeal. So let's hope!

I think Big Sond has reconciled himself to the fact that he's going to be appealed on every single finding he makes, by one side or the other.

Obviously only a dreadful cynic would think that JR's plan was to have him refuse and give her a ground for appeal

But maybe not by NHS Fife - MF doesn't think they'll appeal, anyway, and that DU will

Wasn't it the GMC who had a recent case where someone had practiced for years without proper qualifications and then eventually got caught and they said in response to the case that their systems had improved greatly so there was no longer a chance of such falsehoods slipping through???

I said at the time I thought that was bullshit.

Where can I watch the MF video please?