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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

When did "deadnaming" become a thing?

299 replies

Charabanc · 30/08/2025 15:39

I've been pondering how it's become accepted that "deadnaming" someone is some kind of heinous crime, akin to literal genocide.

When did this come about? Was it via Stonewall? It's not a term I recall from years back, it seems quite recent.

Somehow they decided that it wasn't allowed, and all the DEI lot fell in with it. Like pronouns, I guess. I'm a bit fed up of having to follow their 'rules'.

(Thoughts inspired by SP's naming of Mr Weddell)

OP posts:
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Howseitgoin · 31/08/2025 15:39

Oh. Did you also link to the data from prisons as to the proportion of transwomen who are there for sexual crimes? Plot spoiler: it's pretty high.

Irrelevant. Either transpeople offend at the same rate as men or they don't is the relevant standard.

Charabanc · 31/08/2025 15:42

Howseitgoin · 31/08/2025 15:39

Oh. Did you also link to the data from prisons as to the proportion of transwomen who are there for sexual crimes? Plot spoiler: it's pretty high.

Irrelevant. Either transpeople offend at the same rate as men or they don't is the relevant standard.

Ha ha. I thought you would dodge that one.

OP posts:
Howseitgoin · 31/08/2025 15:44

Ha ha. I thought you would dodge that one.

Lol, that was you….😂

FlirtsWithRhinos · 31/08/2025 15:48

Howseitgoin · 31/08/2025 15:22

What matters is that these two concepts, sex and gender, are clearly different things, and just because you reassign the name "Woman" to label a group of mixed-sex people with the same feeling of gender, it does not mean the group of people who have the sex of female in common stop existing, nor does it mean they stop having sex-specific experiences and needs or stop facing sex-specific social risks and disadvantages.

No one is suggesting that trans women that have the behavioural, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with females are the same as reproductive females. Rather they both qualify as women given their commonalities.

So regardless of who you persoanlly consider to be a "woman", until we get to the point where a man (in the original sex-based meaning) is no more likely to pose a sexual, physical or social threat to a women than another woman, we will continue need sex-specific protections for women (woman and women also in the original sex-based meaning obviously).

Trans women don't offend at the same rate as men.

https://translucent.org.uk/transgender-people-crime-and-prisons/

Firstly, that biased report has been widely debunked - please use the search function.

Secondly, the relevant comparator for female people as to whether introducing trans identifying males into female-only spaces is not "not as bad as other males", it is "no worse than females". Diluting our protections by less than you would if you included all men is still worse for women (original sex based meaning).

But even if trans women did not pose any increased risk as all (a proposition that ahas already been falsified by the non zero number of additional attacks that trans women's inclusion have added to the risks women face), so what?

As a female person, I already appreciate many male people are not a risk to me. I still do not see an argument for one specific group of those male people to be given, on a self identfied basis, access to formerly female-only protections and opportunities when no others are.

Because as I said, I'm happy to accept gender existing as someting different to sex. I simply do not see the logic by which you can claim on the one hand gender is different to sex, then on the other claim that the rights and protections that exist to mitigate sex-based risks and inequalities should somehow be treated as if gender was interchangeable with sex.

Seems very much like having your cake and eating it, no?

Gender is nothing to do with sex when making the argument that trans people want to be treated differently to their own sex, but is entirely interchangeable with sex when making the argument for trans people to just be grouped in with the sex they want to be seen as?

And finally, can you describe some of these "commonalities" are between trans women and female people such that female people would agree they are more significant than the differences, andf such that we do not equally see the same "commonalities" in other groups of men as well?

Because for most female people - a perspective I realise you do not and can never have, but I hope you are intelligent enough to accept exists just as much as the perspecive of trans women exists - the most significant challenges, inequalities, risks and limitations we face as "women" are not the social ones that trans women may also opt into experiencing because of their gender presentation, but the ones that we cannot avoid because of our sex and how society reacts to it. So to me it is entirely justified that women (in the original sex based meaning) should have rights, protections and opportunities that are specific to our sex to mitigate the challenges we face because of our sex.

Can you explain why, given that you agree that sex and gender are different and that trans women do not experience their "womanhood" (whatever that is to you) in the same way that women in the original sex-based meaning experience our sex, it is nevertheless so important to you that the trans woman's experience of "womahood" should be the only defining one, and that female people must fit ourselves somehow within that rather than having our own language to describe our own experiences, and our own rights to support us as we fight with our own sex-based challenges?

FlirtsWithRhinos · 31/08/2025 15:50

Howseitgoin · 31/08/2025 15:39

Oh. Did you also link to the data from prisons as to the proportion of transwomen who are there for sexual crimes? Plot spoiler: it's pretty high.

Irrelevant. Either transpeople offend at the same rate as men or they don't is the relevant standard.

No sweetheart. When it comes to the claim that adding trans women to women's spaces is not going to increase the risk to women, the relevant standard is do they offend at the same rate and profile as women.

PestoHoliday · 31/08/2025 15:54

Howseitgoin · 31/08/2025 15:31

The single thing that unites every woman throughout time is her female body.

False. Diversity exists in morphology, chromosomes & hormones not to mention function.

Yes diversity in biology is 'real'.

Edited

Yes, female bodies aren't cookie cutter identical things, well done for pointing that out.

That doesn't negate the existence of the female sex class, and it's belonging to that sex class that makes us women - something we share with all female human beings no matter when or where they were born.

DogFreeByChoice · 31/08/2025 15:55

Eaglemom · 30/08/2025 16:56

Isn't it the point though that they never wanted to be Rosie in the first place? So why would they want to.keep being reminded of it?

This is often true when people change their name by deed poll because their parents accidentally chose something they found embarrassing or just didn't like. There was a girl called Tracy in my school year who changed her name to Katherine soon after her 18th birthday (and before that went by her middle name at school, which wasn't Katherine) because she just didn't like being called Tracy. I'm sure that kind of thing is relatively common.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 31/08/2025 16:01

Howseitgoin · 31/08/2025 15:31

The single thing that unites every woman throughout time is her female body.

False. Diversity exists in morphology, chromosomes & hormones not to mention function.

Yes diversity in biology is 'real'.

Edited

Are you ... are you seriously saying that a group of people who have female bodies does not and never did exist?

Taking the orginal sex based meaning for "woman", adult human female, by definition the only thing that group definitely hadf in common was having a female body. Of course it's true. It's a tautology.

That you may now want to use that word to mean something else does not take away the existence of that group, nor erase our lives and experiences.

And as one them myself, one who has been lucky enough to only get the smallest degree of the shocking treatment that has been meted out to people like me over the years, but nevertheless even that has shaped and often limited my life in fundamental ways, I can tell you that claiming we do not even exist is a pretty fucking ignorant take.

ThatBlackCat · 31/08/2025 16:19

Howseitgoin · 31/08/2025 15:22

What matters is that these two concepts, sex and gender, are clearly different things, and just because you reassign the name "Woman" to label a group of mixed-sex people with the same feeling of gender, it does not mean the group of people who have the sex of female in common stop existing, nor does it mean they stop having sex-specific experiences and needs or stop facing sex-specific social risks and disadvantages.

No one is suggesting that trans women that have the behavioural, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with females are the same as reproductive females. Rather they both qualify as women given their commonalities.

So regardless of who you persoanlly consider to be a "woman", until we get to the point where a man (in the original sex-based meaning) is no more likely to pose a sexual, physical or social threat to a women than another woman, we will continue need sex-specific protections for women (woman and women also in the original sex-based meaning obviously).

Trans women don't offend at the same rate as men.

https://translucent.org.uk/transgender-people-crime-and-prisons/

'Translucent' is not a valid source. It is propaganda and lies. Government and prison data prove that Transwomen commit sexual offences 5 times greater than other men.

When did "deadnaming" become a thing?
When did "deadnaming" become a thing?
When did "deadnaming" become a thing?
When did "deadnaming" become a thing?
When did "deadnaming" become a thing?
Myalternate · 31/08/2025 16:21

@Howseitgoin

Instead of telling us that you believe you’re woman, can you perhaps explain how you differ from a man?

JanesLittleGirl · 31/08/2025 16:45

I see that a poster who has the behavioural, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with the male sex has turned up to derail yet another thread with their nonsensical and self-defeating mansplaining.

BeLemonNow · 31/08/2025 18:36

So in the interests of the benefits of social cohesion & harm reduction there's no reason not to maintain politeness in social etiquette where preferred pronouns comes in as with all prefereed nomenclature.

So @Howseitgoin what nationality / country do you live in please? It's relevant to my response to this.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 31/08/2025 18:37

Howseitgoin · 31/08/2025 15:31

The single thing that unites every woman throughout time is her female body.

False. Diversity exists in morphology, chromosomes & hormones not to mention function.

Yes diversity in biology is 'real'.

Edited

We really need the 😂emoji back

MistyGreenAndBlue · 31/08/2025 20:00

Howseitgoin · 30/08/2025 23:22

Inasmuch as the usage of a new name is a validating and affirming experience for someone, to instead use their former name is invalidating of a person's identity, as well as emotionally hurtful.

When you deadname someone, you're telling them that you don't see them as their true self. Instead, you see them as you choose to, which is not in alignment with who they are.

Er... we ALL see EVERYONE as we choose to. That's how it works.

If you've known Alan for 20+ years and he's now Jessica, guess what? You're going to see that person as Alan who now calls himself Jessica.

Because that's who they are to you. They don't get a choice in that.

And the point of so called "dead naming" is to erase their shared past with you.

No! They don't get to do that. It's impossible. So... you can call them Jessica if they insist, but you're still allowed to remember them as Alan. It's not a crime. It's not rude or cruel or invalidating. Its just the plain truth.

Heggettypeg · 31/08/2025 22:04

Charabanc · 31/08/2025 15:34

Trans women don't offend at the same rate as men.

Oh, so you know how many transwomen there are in the UK, do you? Because without that data, your statement is worthless.

I doubt if anyone knows for certain. They screwed up the question in the last census, which would have been the best opportunity to get the information. So much so that it isn't counted as a valid official statistic, I gather.

JanesLittleGirl · 31/08/2025 22:34

@Howseitgoin

On the rare occasions that you have addressed the thread subject of deadnaming, you have focused on self image. You see yourself as somebody who should be taken seriously. You have yet to post anything that supports your arguments so I am unable to take you seriously. I reject your self image as a somebody who should be taken seriously.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 01/09/2025 00:29

Howseitgoin · 31/08/2025 15:13

The fact that men commit the vast majority of sexual and violent crime isn’t a gender stereotype.
The fact that the male sex class is stronger than the female sex class isn’t a gender stereotype.

Are you suggesting that the vast majority of women don't have behavioural, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with females or this only applies to men?

Are you talking about the behavioural, cultural or psychological traits typically associated with females in 21st century western culture, or are you saying that the vast majority of women (or men for that matter) have those same traits in all cultures across the world at all times past and present (and indeed future)?

Howseitgoin · 01/09/2025 01:30

Are you talking about the behavioural, cultural or psychological traits typically associated with females in 21st century western culture, or are you saying that the vast majority of women (or men for that matter) have those same traits in all cultures across the world at all times past and present (and indeed future)?

Both. Personality traits are influenced by genes, hormones & environment.

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3149680/

Howseitgoin · 01/09/2025 01:32

On the rare occasions that you have addressed the thread subject of deadnaming, you have focused on self image. You see yourself as somebody who should be taken seriously. You have yet to post anything that supports your arguments so I am unable to take you seriously. I reject your self image as a somebody who should be taken seriously.

This is a particularly silly take. Personality traits aren't some imagined feeling but biologically driven measurable phenomena that implicates gendered behaviours.

Howseitgoin · 01/09/2025 01:37

Er... we ALL see EVERYONE as we choose to. That's how it works.

If you've known Alan for 20+ years and he's now Jessica, guess what? You're going to see that person as Alan who now calls himself Jessica.
Because that's who they are to you. They don't get a choice in that.
And the point of so called "dead naming" is to erase their shared past with you.

No! They don't get to do that. It's impossible. So... you can call them Jessica if they insist, but you're still allowed to remember them as Alan. It's not a crime. It's not rude or cruel or invalidating. Its just the plain truth.

Seeing someone as you "choose to" isn't evidence of who they are in terms of the fullness of their personality traits or relevant to how they should identify given those traits.

Howseitgoin · 01/09/2025 01:38

So in the interests of the benefits of social cohesion & harm reduction there's no reason not to maintain politeness in social etiquette where preferred pronouns comes in as with all prefereed nomenclature.
So ^ what nationality / country do you live in please? It's relevant to my response to this.^

Yeah how?

Howseitgoin · 01/09/2025 01:44

**
"Instead of telling us that you believe you’re woman, can you perhaps explain how you differ from a man?"

GC's love to purport that stereotypes & misogyny are an abomination & yet use them at every opportunity to justify their inconsistent positions. Individuals who disagree with them can't possibly be women. 'All women think are alike dontcha you know….

'How dare you say men & women have behavioural differences' …..except when it comes to dunny etiquette 'cause violence….🤡

Howseitgoin · 01/09/2025 01:46

"'Translucent' is not a valid source. It is propaganda and lies. Government and prison data prove that Transwomen commit sexual offences 5 times greater than other men."

Lol…that bogus graph isn't what you think it is…

https://medium.com/@davidallsopp/bang-to-rights-d5eab85d9a2

Bang! to Rights

The weaponising of prison statistics for anti-trans propaganda

https://medium.com/@davidallsopp/bang-to-rights-d5eab85d9a2

Howseitgoin · 01/09/2025 01:55

"Are you ... are you seriously saying that a group of people who have female bodies does not and never did exist? Taking the orginal sex based meaning for "woman", adult human female, by definition the only thing that group definitely hadf in common was having a female body. Of course it's true. It's a tautology.

I'm saying there are exceptions to female reproductive uniformity just like there are to gendered behaviour uniformity. Both are modes of sexual distinctions & both have exceptions.

That you may now want to use that word to mean something else does not take away the existence of that group, nor erase our lives and experiences.

This is another silly take. The existence of gendered behavioural distinctions doesn't invalidate reproductive distinctions. They aren't mutually exclusive as reality confirms.

And as one them myself, one who has been lucky enough to only get the smallest degree of the shocking treatment that has been meted out to people like me over the years, but nevertheless even that has shaped and often limited my life in fundamental ways, I can tell you that claiming we do not even exist is a pretty fucking ignorant take.

Seems the people who want others not to be offended by the reality of reproductive differences are very offended by the reality of behavioural differences…so much so they imagine it's an attack on their existence….🤪

Howseitgoin · 01/09/2025 01:55

"Are you ... are you seriously saying that a group of people who have female bodies does not and never did exist? Taking the orginal sex based meaning for "woman", adult human female, by definition the only thing that group definitely hadf in common was having a female body. Of course it's true. It's a tautology.

I'm saying there are exceptions to female reproductive uniformity just like there are to gendered behaviour uniformity. Both are modes of sexual distinctions & both have exceptions.

That you may now want to use that word to mean something else does not take away the existence of that group, nor erase our lives and experiences.

This is another silly take. The existence of gendered behavioural distinctions doesn't invalidate reproductive distinctions. They aren't mutually exclusive as reality confirms.

And as one them myself, one who has been lucky enough to only get the smallest degree of the shocking treatment that has been meted out to people like me over the years, but nevertheless even that has shaped and often limited my life in fundamental ways, I can tell you that claiming we do not even exist is a pretty fucking ignorant take.

Seems the people who want others not to be offended by the reality of reproductive differences are very offended by the reality of behavioural differences…so much so they imagine it's an attack on their existence….🤪