Gardening: Gay Men Refused Service Because of Gender-Critical Views

[AnotherAngryAcademic]

The Human Gay Male group have instructed Peter Daly in their case against a Brighton pub. (They had booked a private room for a group meal but the pub cancelled because of the group’s gender critical views. They were also told they would be denied service in the pub as individuals.)

This is an interesting case and it would be useful to have a court decision on whether groups can be denied goods and services on the grounds of gender critical belief.

Is this on gofundme? What do you search for?

It’s on Crowd Justice, and the title is the thread title (minus “gardening”!)

I hope that this is being shared on gay men's discussion forums and that men get donating.

Donated.

I'm a bit torn here, because obviously it's a more than worthy crowdfunder, but there's a bit of me that can't help thinking that gay men usually have infinitely more disposable income than I, scruffy lesbian that I am, and that there are plenty of women's crowdfunders for my pittance. I think I'll wait and only subscribe if it looks like it really needs it... More than happy to bump, though!

I think that the fact that it is a men’s group bringing the case really highlights how many groups of people have had their freedom restricted by this issue. Which is not to say that any women should feel obliged to donate (and I agree that gay men on average have more disposable income than lesbians in particular, and women in general!) - although I think that those who do donate to this case will be contributing to advancing consumer rights for lesbians. If these men win, it will be harder for venues to refuse lesbian only bookings, for example 🙂. (And I think it’s useful that it is gay men doing this - because they are probably more likely to be successful at crowdfunding than a similar claim by lesbians, because they generally have more disposable income etc etc 😊)

It sounds like a clear-cut case, based on the brief facts set out by the group. The men were going to hold a meeting in a private room.

Jeez, would they be refused if they voted for a party different to the management? Or if the voted remain and the management votes leave. It's ridiculous. We all disagree on all sorts of things.

Funnily enough, I just watched Mr Menno’s Brighton Pride video and this was mentioned at the end of it. I will donate as I’m sick of the authoritarian wankers getting their own way and the fucking cowards who bend to them.

Yes this. I'm beyond tired of it.

Gay men sometimes get bad press on here, for being misogynistc TRAs, so this is a welcome counter-balance.

Obviously it depends on what circles you mix in, but any gay men I've been close to have been very supportive of women's and lesbian's rights, they'd be the kind of man who'd join HumanGayMale - good for them for taking a stand✊

Also significant because a lot (not all, but a lot) of gay men are as sexist as the next (straight) guy, and would be horrified at the idea that something they perceive as a women's (or even lesbian) rights issue could have anything to do with them (touch pitch and be defiled..!). Something like this, however, should put a fair few otherwise indifferent guys in touch with their inner Pastor Niemoller.

Thanks - I am all for supporting gc gay men. If anything, it shows to the world that this is not just a ‘women’s issue’ - it is inherently homophobic too. I don’t think that thought has landed with most guardian readers - and sadly it might bother them more than the loss of women’s rights.

I’m wondering how the pub knew about the group’s views? Do they check the credentials of everyone who wishes to eat or drink there? Interesting that at a time when the hospitality industry claims to be struggling, a pub can afford to pick and choose who enters its premises.

Oh and Brighton again 🤦🏻‍♀️

I think it's actually lawful to discriminate against someone on the basis of their politics. Political views aren't deemed to be a "philosophical belief" under the Equality Act.

Someone told on them.

If it gets to court, I will be interested to see the outcome. From my understanding of the law, I think they will be unsuccessful. much as I hope that they win.

Why do you think that?

If they can prove that they were refused service because of their beliefs then that's a clear case of discrimination

This! No one (except direct family) have the slightest idea of my gender views! How the hell would the pub know unless a specific point was made…

They're a group of gender critical gay men. You can look them up online. They will have booked under their group's name.

TRAs told the pub. The pub then cancelled the booking…

Thank you for the heads up. With Peter Daly involved I hope the group has a good chance.

To be honest I can’t imagine a solicitor like Peter Daly getting involved unless he thought they had a good case. He strikes me as a man who is pretty switched on about this area.

I didn't mean legally I just meant that most shops/cafes/pubs don't know what beliefs or political views their customers have. And there's a good chance they don't have the same ones, if they refused everyone they don't agree with they'd have a lot less business.

Agreed.