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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Pronouns she/they - what does that mean?

164 replies

MagpiePi · 20/08/2025 08:27

A woman at work has she/they has her email pronouns. It doesn't even work grammatically as 'she' and 'they' are both 3rd person pronouns.
Not sure what she is trying to express, other than being tiresomely right-on, or have I missed something?

OP posts:
Namelessnelly · 22/08/2025 06:01

EBearhug · 21/08/2025 23:58

I'm fairly sure my sex has sometimes got me interviews because some recruiter has to tick some boxes to say their vacancy ads appeal to a diverse range of people.

Once in a role, I've definitely had to do more to be seen as good as some of my male colleagues. It's tiresome.

I did have one colleague today who kept calling me "man" - as he does with everyone else. The difference is, they are actually men. I suspect he doesn't realise he's doing it, and I think it just shows he accepts me as one of the team. It does grate a bit, though. I am not sure whether to bring it up with him.

Just reply with “ok chick”. See how that goes? It might just be habit if he calls everyone man, or he’s being very modern and not seeing your sex but your role in the team.

elgreco · 22/08/2025 07:35

I occasionally get emails (along with the rest of the design team ) addressed to "Gents". Really annoys me. I expressed my irratation in the office and to my amusement a male technician reaplied addessing the whole group as "Ladies".

5andals · 22/08/2025 14:54

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 20/08/2025 09:30

I must be very rude. I frequently use third person pronouns when talking about someone in her or his presence, and I don't stop to think whether I have referred to them by name a moment earlier. Third person pronouns are a convenience, mostly used automatically (without conscious thought). No-one has ever had a quiet word with me about my rudeness.

On the other hand, I have been shouted and screamed at, by a third person, for "misgendering" my son; I have known his sex since a few seconds after his birth, when midwife, doctor and I unanimously agreed. Nothing since has persuaded me that he is female, not his own declaration, not even his dresses, nice haircut and new glasses, nor all the people falling over themselves to be kind to him (but not kind at all to his bemused and distressed parents).

Interesting, in what context? I'm struggling to think of a situation when I'm standing in front of woman and say 'she' rather then 'you' I might with small children though, when I'm checking stuff with their parents. Its a genuine question BTW as this is one of my key confusions when people feel they need to announce their pronouns. I will use 'they' when referring to someone who I don't know what sex they are i.e. - 'I'm not sure when they are turning up', and I'm not sure what sex they are -and I guess this would follow the rules of other languages, when being more formal.

Sound like you're doing the right thing by your son, so don't be swayed and he will thank you in the end.

TheLudditesWereRight · 22/08/2025 17:01

5andals · 22/08/2025 14:54

Interesting, in what context? I'm struggling to think of a situation when I'm standing in front of woman and say 'she' rather then 'you' I might with small children though, when I'm checking stuff with their parents. Its a genuine question BTW as this is one of my key confusions when people feel they need to announce their pronouns. I will use 'they' when referring to someone who I don't know what sex they are i.e. - 'I'm not sure when they are turning up', and I'm not sure what sex they are -and I guess this would follow the rules of other languages, when being more formal.

Sound like you're doing the right thing by your son, so don't be swayed and he will thank you in the end.

Hi Jo, this is Barbara. She has a place on the Norfolk Broads too, you should swap stories.

GallantKumquat · 23/08/2025 07:48

I'm resigned to the fact that the younger generation will develop a facility to entirely avoid using gendered pronouns and be able to disambiguate the plural they/them from the singular by conventions and context that will forever elude me, consigning me to being an old-fashioned, living linguistic-fossil of a bygone time.

Though, perhaps 'resigned' isn't quite the right connotation, as I secretly aspire to Diana Athill who was the last living person to speech in the authentic, cut-glass accent of her time.

thegentlewoman.co.uk/library/diana-athill

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almostoveritnow · 23/08/2025 09:51

childofthe607080s · 20/08/2025 09:26

Because the grammatically correct pronouns perpetuate sexism ?

when I worked with people in different countries who didn’t recognise my name as female , they all use male default pronouns - all work was done by email and how they interacted with me was notably different and more respectful than when people knew my sex. I had a few laughs whenever we met and they jaws hit the ground

and we know that just knowing the sex of the person affects how people interact and interpret what you do - remember all those cvs sent out where the only difference was the name ( male or female ) and the males got far more interviews than the females?

making it easy to practise sexism just embeds it

I am all for neutral pronouns and names

Most names are gendered so people within the same culture would know straight away whether you are female or not, so your example would mostly be unworkable within the same culture/country.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 23/08/2025 10:18

5andals · 22/08/2025 14:54

Interesting, in what context? I'm struggling to think of a situation when I'm standing in front of woman and say 'she' rather then 'you' I might with small children though, when I'm checking stuff with their parents. Its a genuine question BTW as this is one of my key confusions when people feel they need to announce their pronouns. I will use 'they' when referring to someone who I don't know what sex they are i.e. - 'I'm not sure when they are turning up', and I'm not sure what sex they are -and I guess this would follow the rules of other languages, when being more formal.

Sound like you're doing the right thing by your son, so don't be swayed and he will thank you in the end.

Stranger to DW: "Are you musical?"
Me: "She plays the piano beautifully."

EBearhug · 23/08/2025 10:30

almostoveritnow · 23/08/2025 09:51

Most names are gendered so people within the same culture would know straight away whether you are female or not, so your example would mostly be unworkable within the same culture/country.

Sam? Chris? Alex?

Plus plenty of us work with people whose names are from cultures where we don't know the gender markers. I've worked with people overseas where we've only had email contact to start either, I haven't seen a photo, and I have no idea if they're male or female - and it doesn't matter. What matters is whether they can do the job I'm asking for.

I'm learning Welsh, and while I have grown up with quite a few Welsh names, I sometimes come across ones I don't know, so I need to look for other clues in the text to tell me. Hefin caused me confusion for a while.

downundergirl · 23/08/2025 10:32

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 20/08/2025 08:40

It means she is a pathetic handmaiden and is as thick as mince.

This! 🤣

almostoveritnow · 23/08/2025 11:04

EBearhug · 23/08/2025 10:30

Sam? Chris? Alex?

Plus plenty of us work with people whose names are from cultures where we don't know the gender markers. I've worked with people overseas where we've only had email contact to start either, I haven't seen a photo, and I have no idea if they're male or female - and it doesn't matter. What matters is whether they can do the job I'm asking for.

I'm learning Welsh, and while I have grown up with quite a few Welsh names, I sometimes come across ones I don't know, so I need to look for other clues in the text to tell me. Hefin caused me confusion for a while.

I did say most names…

And again, I wasn’t talking about cross border communication. Half the clients I deal with are international and I get “misgendered” all the time. It’s not something that I am bothered by, so I don’t have pronouns in my email signature.

I also think that many people in UK, especially in urban areas, are aware enough about gendered names from different backgrounds/cultures.

However, I agree that it matters not a jot when it comes to job roles and performance. What I am saying is that because names are mostly gendered, it’s easy to know whether someone is male or female.

MagpiePi · 23/08/2025 11:59

So we have reached the point where alluding to someone’s sex by using a gendered pronoun is somehow harmful or disrespectful. We do need to ask ourselves (or, one needs to ask oneself) how and why we have got to this position.
Is it a natural progression because our society has become less sexist, or is it because lobbying groups have infiltrated and influenced government, policy makers, educational establishments, national bodies, cultural institutions, the popular entertainment industry, social media and the retail sector with the idea that gender (not sex!) is a vital part of identity and that misgendering is not only a cultural faux pas but also akin to actual bodily harm?
Is this shift beneficial or has it actually worsened the position of women in society?

OP posts:
potpourree · 23/08/2025 22:20

So we have reached the point where alluding to someone’s sex by using a gendered pronoun is somehow harmful or disrespectful.

I'm sorry, I don't really follow and I'm not sure how you reached this conclusion. Do you mean "in general" or for a small group of people with a specific set of beliefs? Are to talking about trans people being referred to by their sex?

mumda · 23/08/2025 22:23

It means 'They are for work conversations only.'

Avoid.

Echobowels · 23/08/2025 22:43

EweSurname · 20/08/2025 09:05

I asked a close friend who uses she/they pronouns what she meant by it and for her, it wasn’t about rejecting her womanhood. She acknowledges that she is a woman and is happy with that, patriarchal pressures notwithstanding, but it’s a political stance to reject the idea that you would need to know the sex of a person in most everyday contexts. She also values sex-segregated spaces esp in prisons, sports, hospitals etc but I suppose it’s similar to rejecting the honorific choice of Miss/Mrs and opting for Ms - in the same way she doesn’t agree that a women’s marital status needs to be announced, she also thinks it disadvantages women to have sex announced when not necessary.

I’ve probably done a really poor job of explaining it, but it did change my perspective and I can see that for some people, it isn’t purely performative as I had originally thought

Haven't thought about it like that before. I quite like that.

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