Toilets in a hospital waiting room

[TreeGarden93]

I went to a hospital yesterday, as I regularly do (as a cancer patient).

The new building has a very busy waiting area, approx 200 people capacity and is often full. The toilets there I think are quite unusual in that they are not single sex, as they have shared was basins, but have they do have men/women toilet cubicles once you are inside.

Diagram and photo attached.

The toilet cubicles are fully enclosed with lockable doors. The wash basins are all open plan, used by both men and women.
The first 3 toilets have the traditional woman picture on the door, the last 3 toilets have a male picture. The toilets are very busy and people queue by the sinks, with men having to walk past the women as their toilets are at the end of the row.

I’m not a toilet expert… but I don’t like them. They have single toilets, but then shared spaces wash basins.
I would choose to avoid any toilet that I had to share an intimate space with men. I would prefer single sex toilets.
As you can imagine, all cancer patients may have particular and urgent needs when using a bathroom and washroom that may need privacy and sensitivity.

I don’t think this meets the criteria for being uni-sex? I thought unisex sex toilets had to have wash facilities within the cubicle.

This is a new building… opened last year to much fanfare, so they have been purposely designed this way. I suspect the male and female signs have been added as an after thought to try and direct men to use specific toilets.

Can yourself lucky that there is some separation the ones in our local hospital are all unisex so there is always piss on the sea and disgusting stains from the men

These are dangerous toilets. Easy to attack women in.

I'm pretty sure those are illegal, even with the signs on the doors (which I'm guessing was an afterthought and attempt at cover-up when they realised that the set-up is illegal).

I would feel very unsafe in those toilets. In addition, if somebody fainted or was unwell, which is very possible, there are no gaps for staff to check up on that person.
I’m sure the lady on here who is an expert on loo safety will have something to say about them. I think you should complain ASAP. Are there any single sex ones you could use elsewhere in the building?
Wishing you well with your health as well.

Yes I agree the signs definitely feel like an after thought and an attempt at damage limitation.

is this set up illegal? I’m going to write to them anyway.

Thank you.

I’m not sure what the alternatives are in the new building. It’s massive, and next time I’m there I shall spend some of my waiting time exploring the toilet provision!

I know there are single sex toilets elsewhere in the hospital, especially in the older parts of the building. To get there you need to walk through various corridors, so not an easy alternative for some.

Please do write to them. I think it's probably not illegal (I can think of similar restaurant set-ups) but in the context of a hospital it's massively insensitive and inviting abuse. Women (and men) with pads they are bleeding/incontinent onto, women weakened by illness and doubly vulnerable, potentially predatory men with any remaining filters removed by illness/MH issues ...

no thanks.

I have the URL of Doc T of the UK Building Regs - which only apply to England, I've been told recently - on speed-dial
and if the building is in England, and if it is new, I think that means it has to comply with these regs.

(1) Toilet accommodation in buildings other than dwellings—

(a) must consist of—
(i) (ii) reasonable provision for male and female single-sex toilets, or where space precludes provision of single-sex toilets, universal toilets, and

(b) may consist of universal toilets in addition to single-sex toilets.

(2) In this requirement— “single-sex toilet” means toilet facilities which—
(a) are intended for the exclusive use of persons of the same sex, and
(b) provide washbasins and hand-drying facilities in—
(i) either the toilet room or cubicle, or
a separate area intended for use only by persons of that sex.

“universal toilet” means toilet facilities which—
(a) are provided in a fully enclosed room which contains a water closet and washbasin and hand-drying facilities, and
(b) is intended for individual use by persons of either sex.

1.16 There should be no shared hand-washing facilities in corridors, circulation spaces or shared spaces outside universal toilets of Type A or Type B.
Toilet accommodation: Approved Document T [2010, amended in 2024]

So on the face of it, it looks like this toilet provision in a new building doesn't comply with building regs either in the provision of single-sex toilets or the spec of the unisex toilets.

NB: IANAAEOUKBR- I am not an expert on UK building regs!

Same at my child’s school -open plan wash area with individual toilet cubicles, but no suggestion of segregation so all toilets end up with piss on the seats and floor.

I’m hoping some firm guidance will appear to let the girls have a better experience

In my clinic the one toilet is for men, women, staff and patients. 9/10 times when I go in there cleaners have to be called as there is urine and faeces everywhere. Im so sick of it.

I used a similar set-up in a museum. Those toilets were in a far-flung corner of the building and when I arrived there there was one other person there - a man, using the wash basin. It felt very unsafe.

There's often piss on the seat in the (exclusively) ladies' loos. There's a lot of hovering going on, I suspect.

And the men are assigned the two toilets at the end, which have outwards opening doors - easier access to a use if they've collapsed, and easier for a user with restricted mobility to exit the cubicle.

Schools have different regs, I think - yep I've just checked, the Building Regs Doc T explicitly excludes school buildings, so not relevant.
There are experts on schools/toilets/changing rooms on here, so I'm sure someone can give school-specific guidance.

It sounds incredibly dangerous to me to have fully enclosed toilets in a cancer ward of a hospital. Especially with 3 for each sex. (So people are less likely to notice if one is closed for a long time.)

@MarieDeGournay has provided the key document, but you need Keeptoiletssafe for the full argument for your letter. I'll see if I can nudge her this way.

While waiting for her to arrive, you'll find a lot of the info on this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5316505-toilets-a-chance-to-make-them-safer-for-everyone?page=2&reply=146522929

Thanks - I’ll take a look. As I’m in another hospital waiting area… something to keep me occupied!

Hope we've been helpful, and most importantly - wishing you well and strong!

Hello
Thank you @NoBinturongsHereMate for directing me to here and everyone including @MarieDeGournay for giving lots of information.

They do not meet building regulations which they should have known by last year as unusually the British Standards were published for all to see in the form of Document T (2024). There is a chance, your hospital setting is excluded for some reason but if anything the health and safety should be higher standards in your setting. The plans for these toilets would have been drafted ages ago, no doubt as ‘inclusive’ or cost effective (which they are not) or spacing saving/ fit in with what space is left. I think you are right that the male and female have been stuck on as toilets had made the headlines (and they may have had complaints). They also don’t comply with Health and Safety regulations.

In hospitals more than most places, there have been deaths in toilets. The last thing you need is a toilet with a full height door that is design to rest shut. Although bodies aren’t likely to be in there days (6 days in one council office recently) because of better cleaning regimes, it only takes a few minutes for survivable to become not. 11% of cardiac arrests happen on the toilet. The process of elimination (holding your breath and pushing) puts people more at risk of a cardiac event. Added to the fact that it’s the place where people go to when they feel ill, then that’s why all public toilets should have a quick release mechanism to open the door outwards so a collapsed body doesn’t push the door shut. This does not appear to be the case in these set of toilets (again against building regs) as the hinges can’t be seen. I have got several examples where people have been found dead in hospital toilets. My examples are mostly from newspapers. It will happen much more frequently than ever reaches the newspapers.

The last two look like ambulant toilets? These are usually bigger and have handrails. They are for ambulant people who are frail and need handrails and a shelf (good for changing bags/dressings etc). These look like they have both been designated to men. They do look like the door opens outwards so at least you would be able to get to a collapsed person after the door had been unlocked (once you were aware they had collapsed). There may be a quick release mechanism for the door to open on the skirting board? I can’t tell what that is.

The Women’s Right Network have done some work on how many assaults happen in hospitals. Unfortunately it appears no one has data on where in a hospital they take place.

My data (from various locations) shows that children are led into private toilet cubicles. The other thing is men lie in wait then push a woman back into a cubicle. Usually unisex toilets are self contained, private, resistant to sound and lead off a main thoroughfare to try and minimise the later situation. Here you have the worst of all worlds as it’s been bodged.

The last thing to say is that they can’t be cleaned properly. Unisex toilets are the worst for germs. The gaps under and over doors and partitions are there for safety and health. They increase ventilation and it means cleaners can properly rinse (drench) the floor with detergent and there’s not build up on surfaces.

They really are shocking. I am travelling at the moment but can send you over some links on health and safety if you want. I am not sure what I have posted on the other thread so don’t know what I am repeating. If there’s any specific questions or links, please let me know.

I have attached a relevant article on germs.

All the best with your treatment. How thoughtful that you thinking of others when going through this xx

https://salus.global/article-show/pathogen-findings-raise-concerns-about-move-to-unisex-hospital-facilities

I have had several emails and then a FOI request to the DfE. The toilet designs they have in their school specific brief for secondary schools, they told me, are designed for privacy. I asked about health and safety. They told me they hold no equality impact assessments for these designs for the health and safety of pupils (in regards to assaults on girls and any pupils collapsing) in their department. They referred me to Health and Safety legislation from 1974. Schools have to abide by this too. The Health and Safety Executive are aware of this.

The current designs in the DfE guidelines are discriminatory against those with invisible disabilities and girls. I hope now that now toilets are single sex, the single sex designs will return. The door gaps are needed to prevent assaults and alert others if something bad has happened in the toilet cubicle. Of course the area in front of the cubicles also needs to be single sex so single sex basins too.

The school specific brief even asks if toilets are to be unisex or single sex. There is debate over whether a cubicle with full height partitions and doors is a room. In any case, I think sharing sinks is wrong. But it’s been allowed time and time again in new schools and refurbishments, usually framed as ‘inclusive’..

That’s a horrible and unlawful design OP. Best of luck with your treatment and complaints.

Ventalation in a post C19 world in a cancer ward area. Even with mechanical vents in a busy area the multiple doors stop the airflow.

You are walking into a tiny room which multiple women and men have been in over the last quarter hour and then into a smaller one.

Where are the inflow and out flow vents?

From AI scrape :

"In the UK, ventilation building codes often refer to air changes per hour (ACH), particularly in relation to purge ventilation, which is designed to rapidly remove pollutants and excess heat. A common requirement is 4 air changes per hour for habitable rooms. This can be achieved through openable windows, doors, or mechanical ventilation systems.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:
Purge Ventilation:
The UK Building Regulations, specifically Approved Document F, often mandate a purge ventilation rate of at least 4 air changes per hour for habitable rooms. This is a key aspect of managing overheating and removing pollutants like those from cooking, cleaning, or even just breathing"

That seems dodgy. It's a bit like one I went to the other day, also in a hospital. It wasn't super busy and there were other loos in the corridor, so it just had two cubicles inside, with sinks opposite.

The main door stated M/F but when you got in one was M and one was F. My elderly mum went in and then was swiftly followed by a man. Obviously he did nothing wrong just using it as it said unisex. But he could have done worse?

It felt uneasy. The space was very small and clearly used to be a bank of two female cubicles. I wouldn't like to go to the toilet that close to a man then stand right next to him washing my hands, maybe doing makeup etc.

They are bloody awful and I feel a) exposed b) don't fully consider privacy and dignity of anyone who has a medical issue or accident.

They are ESPECIALLY inappropriate in hospitals for this reason