Folklore and feminism talk: ends in tiresome J K Rowling criticism

[Womanwhoremonstrates]

I attended a Folklore and Feminism talk in The Glee Club in Cardiff last evening. I was slightly regretting booking it as anticipated something related to gender identity etc. would come up.

Get to the end of the talk and feel relieved, it's been an interesting discussion of the portrayal of women in folklore, female collectors and writers of stories and an exploration of how the suffragist movement used Folklore and history as symbols e.g. Use of the image of Boudicca.

But then, the Q and A starts. There's a long tedious, incoherent and meandering question about the difference between Celtic Folklore and English folklore which ends with a point on the supreme court deciding what a woman is and the questioner thinking this is a bad decision. I roll my eyes so far back in my head it's painful.

The presenter answers and part of her answer is a cringing apology of the fact that there is a chapter of her forthcoming book about Harry Potter and folklore and she's 'really regretting ' being so uncritical of the Harry Potter universe as it's so tainted by that awful J K Rowling who wrote it.

I sit there silently raging. I work in a university and deal constantly with pish like this and people constantly whacking you round the head with their gender identity crap and marinating in their own sense of moral progressiveness like a warm bath.

Particularly annoyed on 2 main points

• Presenter of course doesn't provide specific examples of J K Rowling's supposed bad behaviour as that would have required her to critically engage with the 'J K Rowling is anti trans and hurty menz feelings ' attitude prevalent with so many people

• if she's that bothered by so called 'anti-trans' views J K has been very open on her views on women's rights and the challenges they face from gender identity crap since 2020. The book will have been written since then. Why such craven caving to the 'J K is terrible ' warbling now?

I was so annoyed I couldn't really sleep. I went to a female- focused talk and of course this issue would come up wouldn't it, I feel that woman can't have anything for ourselves without this nefarious nonsense rearing its loathsome head. The cognitive dissonance of some women being proudly feminist yet believing in something which so actively undermines their own interests baffles me.

Its interesting in a talk about women, women have to go out of their way to critise another woman for not conforming?

I think it says as much about women as it does about the power of trans ideology.

Do you think your rage is in part due to you not saying anything. I often feel more rage when I have stayed silent. Its partly rage towards myself.

I went to a female- focused talk and of course this issue would come up wouldn't it, I feel that woman can't have anything for ourselves without this nefarious nonsense rearing its loathsome head

This will bells on - although I bet there were many other women in the audience who were as fucked off as you were by having a female-centred event hijacked by women shifting the focus to men. The tide is turning rapidly though, and people are seeing the rainbow men's rights movement for what it is - but when you go out for an evening you don't expect or want to have to challenge these ridiculous TRA views, esp when the women defending them are so captured they're willing to be complicit in their own subordination.

Stupid and/or rambling incoherent questions are part and parcel of Q&A after a talk. Really depressing about the presenter though, as that sounds like an interesting subject.

Is there a way of contacting the author to ask if she's actually read Rowling's essay, and what in it is objectionable? Perhaps via the publisher?

It so hard to speak up in those circumstances, isnt it? The person who asked the question was obviously testing the author. She was possibly trying to keep the audience onside if she used harry potter in her book uncritically.

So to say something means the risk of ending the night on a bad note.

”…there is a chapter of her forthcoming book about Harry Potter and folklore and she's 'really regretting ' being so uncritical of the Harry Potter universe as it's so tainted by that awful J K Rowling who wrote it.”

Yeah convenient that, ain’t it? Use Harry Potter in your book but slag off JKR behind the scenes. I would’ve sat there seething too. And I would’ve been silent. You don’t want to rouse a loony lynch mob on a Thursday night in Cardiff.

Yes, I feel really powerless to say anything, but was mostly the fact that she undermined the whole message of her talk. It's hard to challenge people as they often don't listen - my workplace is heavily pro gender identity. I once challenged the plan to put in mixed sex toilets in a meeting at work on the grounds it would make people feel uncomfortable and was told I couldn't use the word sex as 'we like to use the word gender '. Only 1 person out of the 10 in the meeting supported me , and rest were disingenuously acting like my concerns were ridiculous.

I was thinking this too

As you say OP, the book had been written without reference to the TRA nonsense. Maybe the author was (as most people were) largely unaware, but now feels the pressure to conform because she can’t afford to get cancelled? Publishing is rife, so it might be harder if you have to survive, essentially as self-employed, in this industry. Maybe you can contact her to let her know that she doesn’t have to bow down to this ideology and plenty of women will support her, probably even more?

Yes that powerless rage.

I still feel a rage about a comedian who made an anti JK comment at a gig. It was just after lockdown and we all spaced in an outside stadium one seat apart.

I could have stood up and asked "What has she said that is a anti-trans?" And he would have heard me no problem, we were that close.

And I didn't! Still get the rage now about it.

It really wasn't the time nor place I was with my teenage son and he would have died in the spot and it was literally a few days after lockdown and it would have completely spoiled everyone's mood.

Has you can imagine really spoiled the show for me and lost all respect for him as a comedian. Home grown Bristol lad too.

Maybe I should message him in Insta just so I can let it go!! Hahaha

It's (almost) funny to see so many people using JKR to boost their careers or their social media standing while professing to hate her.

We see it on here, we see it on X, we see it everywhere. They need her. As I said on another thread, she should get royalties for every time she's mentioned.

On another note OP, it sounds like a really interesting talk!

I feel that woman can't have anything for ourselves without this nefarious nonsense rearing its loathsome head.

Totally agree, OP.

I've been to several really good talks at the British Library over the years; including a series on Harry Potter based around the Hogwarts curriculum (heard Maggie Aderin-Pocock do Astronomy and Anna Pavord do Herbology). Glad I got to hear those before this performative madness miasma took hold.

I always think of an original, clever and pertinent question........ on the Tube on the way home.

On a positive note, there is always a massive queue for photos of Platform 9 3/4 at Kings Cross, a lovely big fat Fuck You to the wokescolders.

I know this is a tangent but in the last few days I read two articles on the progress of women’s football that started really well and inspiring. One in particular highlighted the positive impact of visible lesbianism.

They both ended with a comment about how ‘everyone isn’t included’ and things need to now change for transgender women to be included in women’s football.

Firstly, they are included and can freely take part in men’s football and secondly, it was a sad ending to two great articles.

I guarantee you weren't the only one who was sitting there fuming OP. Its just so bloody tiresome. As other posters have said, JKR gets picked up when she's convenient and useful, and then trashed for some non-specific rubbish like 'hating trans people'. It's hard to sit there and take it and roll your eyes and seethe silently, but I would have done the same!

"I sit there silently raging"

Don't rage silently then, rage loudly . It's only because people don't say the emperor has no clothes that he is allowed to parade around with his willy out.

The presenter answers and part of her answer is a cringing apology of the fact that there is a chapter of her forthcoming book about Harry Potter and folklore and she's 'really regretting ' being so uncritical of the Harry Potter universe as it's so tainted by that awful J K Rowling who wrote it.

Suggests the rest of the book isn't very good, if she can't stand by a chapter that she would have written with full knowledge of JKR's views.

Could you write the presenter a nice letter saying how much you enjoyed her talk and list the things that were interesting about it and telling her there's no need to apologise for JKR because she's your heroine and she's done so much for women's rights? And that you wish people wouldn't disrupt women's events by dragging in trans issues?

Just so she knows that not everyone in the audience agrees with the questioner. And in a supportive rather than challenging way.

This. Although I sometimes imagine the office intern is shredding any letters before they get to the person they're intended for. But we can try.

You could mention the impeccable things that JKR has done for women that even the most devoted TRA couldn't moan about, like this:

https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/harry-potter-author-jk-rowling-helped-afghan-lawyers-flee-the-taliban/

Because even if the presenter believes that JKR's position on trans is totally wrong it is still fair to say that JKR came to that position as a feminist who is concerned about the safety of women and girls in modern society and as a writer who is concerned about freedom to express difficult truths. And it is only fair to acknowledge that. Disagreement is fair. Blanket condemnation is not.

(Sorry if that's unhelpful... just musing)

So weird. I went to a women and witchcraft ‘seed talk’ at a welsh uni recently… might be part of the same series. The academic was very good and it was very interesting. Maybe 95% female audience. And guess what, someone at the end had to ask a similar question and whether talking about women and witchcraft was too exclusive etc. I didn’t bother to hide my eye roll, which was seen by the questioner. The presenter gave a suitably vague answer which seems so non committal to not offend either side, but I felt for her. Had nothing to do with what we had gone to listen to. Anyway, the next person asked what future women might look back on and view as the biggest witch trail of our time. Seemed to pass my pals and most people by but am hoping she meant what I thought she meant so I did (actually) LOL in a good way at her comeback. It’s pathetic. Absolutely mental shoehorning behaviour.

I too have trouble tolerating extremely stupid people, OP: I felt your despair and annoyance like they were mine. And yes, I often find myself without words when faced with this kind of depressing attitudes, so I cowardly retreat into my misanthropic shell.

Thanks all for the responses, some helpful advice here and it also helped to share my frustration and anger.

Depressing, but predictable.

The interesting thing about folklore and folk tales is that this stuff is all there.

Women betraying other women for status.

Creepy monsters pretending something they are not.

People being targeted falsely.

The reason that JKR's work struck a chord with millions of kids is it taps into the same universal tropes as folklore. One part which is particularly relevant and more of the modern world is her examination of the media and government bureaucracy.

The thing is though humans just do the same things as we have always done. No matter how much they get warned.

I've had several similar experiences, not necessarily with regard to JKR but interesting, women focused events being marred by kow towing to trans identified men.

For example a moving panel discussion on women's rights in Iran at which one of the panellists was at pains to say that transwomen (sic) are facing the same terrible human rights abuses as women. I've no doubt that homosexuals in Iran (or indeed people who transgress gender norms and who might be perceived as homosexual) face very real and serious threat in Iran. But this was a session about Iranian women, not gay men.

At another event, about the persisting challenges to balancing motherhood with a fulfilling career, the host's introduction went on an on about how when we talk about women we mean all (sic) women including transwomen.

We truly can't have anything of our own.

The whole "trans" crap has just given stupid people, often but not always, men,the impetus to feel they are being so virtuous with their nonsensical whataboutery, drives me nuts. As soon as the word woman is spoken in any context, there will always be a "what about the menz? " from some brain dead blue hair.