Reddit post showing data on shift in public opinion not locked yet.

[ThatZanyFatball]

There's an active discussion on the "Charts" sub showing a great visual of the shift in public opinion on the trans movement over the last 4 years. Not only does the chart visualize great news, there's also active and open discussion in the comments that hasn't been locked yet. Been a pleasure to read and engage. Enjoy!

www.reddit.com/r/charts/s/2Qyi7FzQ5C

Interesting discussion. I have seen the stats before. I notice TRAs are disputing the evidence and lots of USians are calling the UK right wing - conservative would be nearer the mark, I suggest. It's a good thing that trans ideology is now seen for what it is: an attack on women (and this goes for transwomen aping women but also for the sorry tale of transmen who have their bodies destroyed by this ideology as well).

that's an interesting thread (locked now, i think?) and a lot of the comments are exactly what i expect, including the hyperbolic statement that we're all going to be sending "them" (whoever they are) to gas ovens. FGS.

And someone pointing out that TRA hyperbole of that sort is why the poll is now showing what it shows: overreach.

There's a lot of straw man and other examples of bad faith in the comments.
It's a practical extension of no debate.
All based off appeal to emotion stemming from emotional outburst.
I wonder if in another universe trans activism had chosen a different path, where would we be? Debate, good faith, acknowleging the conflict between different people's rights, compromise, common sense. As it is we have blokes pouring piss over themselves and playing the piano with their cocks on the telly. And for some unfathomable reason it didn't work out the way they wanted. Who could possibly have guessed?

@Brefugee
the thread is still open

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5247162-results-of-yougov-survey-dec-24-for-sex-matters?page=1

https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/YouGov_-_Transgender_study_2024.pdf

I think it relates to this yougov survey above..

I think the chart that has been floating around comes from this

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/51545-where-does-the-british-public-stand-on-transgender-rights-in-202425

I take it back. There is two different polling done within days of each other but both with significant results

https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/YouGov_-_Transgender_study_2024.pdf

and the Sex Matters survey.

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/SexMatters_Gender_241219_ZMwbM2T.pdf

A playlist of TRA Greatest Hits 2020-2024

-Isla Bryson's cock bulge
-Nicola Sturgeon visibly furious about being asked if Isla is a woman
-most politicians looking fucking stupid when asked what a woman is
-Head of Stonewall telling lesbians not to be sexual racists
-bloke playing the piano with his knob on Channel 4 whilst calling himself a woman
-Eddie Izzard's trans superpower failing to grant him a shot at a Labour seat after he kindly offers to travel all the way from North London to put Sheffield on the map

And in the US:
-transwoman getting moobs out at a White House party
-Dylan Mulvaney's Bud ad, plus everything Dylan said or did
-Lia Thomas potentially beating Katie Ledecky's US record
-convicted sex pest getting his knob out in front of kids in Wi Spa, and being defended by woke bros

What might sway public opinion back? The ghost of Princess Di? David Attenborough documentary on cute trans animals?

Very Interesting. Most comments are TWAW with just "Brits are all far-right anti-trans bigots" without a shred of proof. But also some very good articulate ones on why they're glad about a shift to common sense.

Yup, we Brits did go educate ourselves, didn't we? 😁

@Beowulfa
Don't forget that towering intellectual powerhouse David Lammy calling women "dinosaurs hoarding rights like eggs".
The very same genius Lammy who in response to the BBC asking of the 2013 papal conclave "will the smoke be black or white?" thought it was a reference to the new pope's skin colour and got all offended at his own imagined racial boogeyman.

This was my favourite comment
"Evidence that Britons have shit for brains and will be mad at whatever the right-wing ghouls who own the BBC want them to be mad at."

That must be a very confusing head space to live in.

To me, it's evidence of Britain's wonderfully tolerant yet stoic culture which does its best to balance the rights of everyone.

I did consider that, but then I also recalled his saying that men can grow a cervix, and his dismal performance on Celebrity Mastermind so I tried to blank it all from my memory. Thanks so much for the reminder!

Interesting comparison and (some of) the comments are surprisingly balanced for reddit.

What annoys me is that even the 2020 data reflects that there was never a majority of support for things like trans women in women's sport and self ID, with even the most trans-supportive categories voting against those questions. So how did we get to a point where those things became practice and very almost law?

Also interesting are the number of clearly American commenters referring to "MAGA Trudeau" "republicans" and "the supreme court allowing gay marriage in 2015" (i.e. the US supreme Court) - it would be easy to mock those comments as oblivious/ignorant/arrogant Americans importing their views and legislation on the world, because
ostensibly none of those things should have any impact on the UK BUT this particular issue is one where the US influence has to be acknowledged - the huge increase in people identifying as trans can't be discussed without accepting the influence of the US health care system.

There's no financial benefit to the NHS of supporting people to transition - if anything it is detrimental due to cost. There is a huge benefit in people transitioning to big pharma who can bill their insurers hundreds of thousands, possibly millions - not just for complicated surgeries but for medication for the rest of their lives.

Now that I have had a better look, it is interesting to see that the YouGov results showed a slightly less supportive result than the Sex Matters poll. Obviously different groups were surveyed. But even so, the swing against supporting male people in female single sex provisions was slightly greater in general in the YouGov poll. I hope that this is followable.

Just to be clear:

2018 in italics OR 2020 in italics if no 2018 data available
2022 in [brackets]
2024 in bold no brackets
2024SM in bold no brackets = 2024 Sex Matters poll
(YG 2024) = Yougov % to compare against Sex Matters result

(I did not add 2020 in all areas because the numbers were getting out of hand with this limited formatting ability)

In the following questions a transgender woman is someone who was biologically male at birth, but now identifies as a woman. A transgender man is someone who was biologically female at birth, but now identifies as a man.

Do you think transgender women should or should not be allowed to…
Take part in women's sporting events?2018 in italics, 2022 in [brackets vs 2024

Should be allowed 27 [16] 12% 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 15%
Should not be allowed 48 [61] 74% 2018 - 2024 this is increase by 26%
Don't know 25 [22] 14%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 11%

Use women's changing rooms? 2022 in brackets vs 2024

Should be allowed 42 [34] 25%. 2018 - 2024* this is decrease by 17%
Should not be allowed 33 [43] 58%. 2018 - 2024 this is increase by 25%
Don't know 25 [23] 17%. 2018 - 2024 *this is decrease by 8%

Use women's toilets? 2022 in brackets vs 2024

Should be allowed 46 [38] 33%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 13%
Should not be allowed 30 [41] 51%. 2018 - 2024* *this is increase by 20%
Don't know 23 [21] 16%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 7%

Use women's refuges? 2022 in brackets vs 2024

Should be allowed 47 [39] 29%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 18%
Should not be allowed 27 [36] 55%. 2018 - 2024 this is increase by 28%
Don't know 26 [25] 16%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 10%

No surgery question was asked in 2018

And the specific non surgical question from 2020:

Do you think a transgender woman who has not had gender reassignment surgery should or should not be allowed to...

Use women's changing rooms? 2020 in italics, 2022 in [brackets] vs 2024

Should be allowed 26 [25] 19%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 7%
Should not be allowed 46 [48] 63%. 2020 - 2024* *this is increase by 17%
Don't know 28 [27] 18%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 10%

Use women's toilets?

Should be allowed 31 [29] 23%. 2020 - 2024* *this is decrease by 8%
Should not be allowed 41 [46] 60%. 2020 - 2024 this is increase by 19%
Don't know 27 [25] 18%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 9%

And finally:

This question was also not asked in 2018

Do you believe that allowing transgender women to use spaces reserved for women, such as women's toilets or changing rooms, does or does not present a genuine risk of harm to women? 2020 in italics, 2022 in [brackets] vs 2024

Does not present a genuine risk of harm 39 [32] 25%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 14%
Does present a genuine risk of harm 32 [39] 55%. 2020 - 2024 this is increase by 23%
Don't know 29 [29] 20%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 9%

d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/Transgender_data_2018.pdf

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/Transgender_data_2020.pdf

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/Internal_TransgenderIssues_220720_final_extraXbreak_FINAL.pdf

https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/YouGov_-_Transgender_study_2024.pdf

There was also a Sex Matters poll done within days of the YouGov tracker. These are the results of it compared to in the past too. Just pulling them together, the Sex Matters (2533 adults polled) results were often more supportive than the YouGov results (2078 adults polled).

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/SexMatters_Gender_241219_ZMwbM2T.pdf

In the following questions a transgender woman is someone who was biologically male at birth, but now identifies as a woman. A transgender man is someone who was biologically female at birth, but now identifies as a man.

Do you think transgender women should or should not be allowed to…
Take part in women's sporting events?2018 in italics, 2022 in [brackets vs 2024 SM (YG 2024)

Should be allowed 27 [16] 11%SM 2018 - 2024 SM this is decrease by 16% (YG 12%)
Should not be allowed 48 [61] 74%SM 2018 - 2024 SM this is increase by 26% (YG 74%)
Don't know 25 [22] 15%SM. 2018 - 2024 this is SM decrease by 10% (YG 14%)

Use women's changing rooms? 2022 in brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 42 [34] 27%SM. 2018 - 2024SM this is decrease by 15% (YG 25%)*
Should not be allowed 33 [43] 56%SM. 2018 - 2024SM this is increase by 23% (YG 58%)
Don't know 25 [23] 17%SM. 2018 - 2024 SM this is decrease by 8% (YG 17%)*

Use women's toilets? 2022 in brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 46 [38] 33%SM. 2018 - 2024 SMthis is decrease by 13% (YG 29%)
Should not be allowed 30 [41] 51%SM. 2018 - 2024SM this is increase by 20% (YG 55%)
Don't know 23 [21] 16%SM. 2018 - 2024 SM this is decrease by 7% (YG 16%)

Use women's refuges? 2022 in brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 47 [39] 31%SM. 2018 - 2024 SM this is decrease by 16% (YG 29%)
Should not be allowed 27 [36] 47%SM. 2018 - 2024 SM this is increase by 20% (YG 52%)
Don't know 26 [25] 22%SM. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease SM by 4% (YG 20%)

And the specific non surgical question from 2020:

Do you think a transgender woman who has not had gender reassignment surgery should or should not be allowed to...

Use women's changing rooms? 2020 in italics, 2022 in [brackets] vs 2024SM (YG 2024)
Should be allowed 26 [25] 20%SM. 2020 - 2024SM this is decrease by 6% (YG 19%)
Should not be allowed 46 [48] 62%SM. 2020 - 2024 SM this is increase by 16% (YG 63%)
Don't know 28 [27] 18%SM. 2020 - 2024 SM this is decrease by 10% (YG 18%)

Use women's toilets?
Should be allowed 31 [29] 26%SM. 2020 - 2024 SM this is decrease by 5% (YG 23%)
Should not be allowed 41 [46] 58%SM. 2020 - 2024 SM this is increase by 17% (YG 60%)
Don't know 27 [25] 16%SM. 2020 - 2024 SM this is decrease by 11% (YG 18%)

And of the advantage to having a multipolar GC movement. Means we aren't so suspectible to American cultural imperialism in matters of political framing.

It’s this, in a nutshell.

A more tolerant and thoughtful, accepting path would have given much more support for trans people. I suspect many of us who post here would not feel as we do now, let alone post on MN about it.

But mouthy oddballs have dominated the narrative, and Joe and Josephine Public aren’t pleased.

I think it was always going to end this way because the men only wanted to be in womens spaces and not allow women to be a class without them. They wanted to be the oppressed subset of women. Nothing else would be enough.

TRA always assume that the young were more trans accepting, and they would stay accepting as they aged. But i think thats misplaced in two ways - all it takes is one bad experience to peak someone, and the young have their own subcultures around trans and enbies that have little to do with the demands of middle aged men.