The disgraceful RCN and Nurse Jennifer Melle

[ArabellaScott]

The Darlington Nurses Union has now formally intervened to ask the RCN to step up and do its actual job:

'Suspended nurse Jennifer Melle says her gender row with the NHS has left her abandoned, vulnerable and alone.
The medic claims she has been cast into the wilderness and feeling like a pariah over her unshakable and religiously-held beliefs on biological sex.
She has been suspended from work for four months for breaching patient confidentiality after “misgendering” a convicted sex offender.
Single mum Ms Melle, 40, now faces being struck off but says the silence from those with a duty of care towards her has left her broken. '
...
'Ms Melle was hauled before a disciplinary hearing after an incident in May last year during which she refused to use female pronouns for a patient under her care.
She remains unable to work after Patient X, who was born male but identifies as a woman, was taken to St Helier Hospital in Carshalton, Surrey, from a male prison for treatment for a urinary condition.
Ms Melle was called a n*** multiple times after the inmate overheard her using biologically accurate pronouns during a phone call with a senior doctor.
She was suspended by the trust on April 2 for breaching patient confidentiality after speaking about the racial abuse and referred to the Nursing and Midwifery Council.'

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/2090368/gender-biological-sex-trans-NHS-nurse

'A paying RCN member for 12 years, Jennifer says that when the incident happened the union dismissed her case as not “meritorious” and told her to complete a “reflection” exercise to avoid future ‘misgendering’. She received no support despite the RCN recognising the abuse she experienced.
The Darlington Nursing Union (DNU), which represents Jennifer, has now formally appealed to the RCN to intervene.'

https://christianconcern.com/ccpressreleases/christian-nurse-in-trans-paedophile-misgendering-case-says-royal-college-of-nursing-abandoned-her/

Shocking story. The man was in hospital for a urinary problem, so it was essential to share his biological sex with the doctor. The anatomy of the urinary tracts in men and women are different and prostate enlargement and resultant retention are a consideration for men.

Well yeah.. he's got a dick

No, you're exaggerating and creating strawmen for effect.

So could pretending someone was the opposite sex in some circumstances.

Yes. Going along with someone's gender incongruence can lead to them wanting to remove body parts.

People are free to prop up other people’s delusions and beliefs. They shouldn’t be compelled to, and others are free to disapprove of either choice.

R.e. downsides of medical professionals using correct sex and/or not using preferred pronouns:

• causing substantial distress to transgender individuals including at their most vulnerable/ sick / dying

• preventing transgender from seeking medical care until dire / an emergency

• potentially "outing" transgender status to others who may not be aware adding to the above issues.

I would note in the case of the Christian nurse this would include refusing to use non binary pronouns to a female feminist who wants a less gendered society.

As mentioned there's a distinction between medicine where the first responsibility is to the patient and elsewhere.

I.e. I might call someone fat but I wouldn't expect a nurse to use that word to describe a relative however true it is! As it's offensive and uncaring.

Yes, again that doesn't kill them and they have that choice to take surgery risks. Anorexia kills.

R.e. the God delusion, fetching someone a priest might lead to them refusing medical care so what's the difference with that delusion?

It also seems different in a medical profession than in i.e. private family where the former there's a need to respect beliefs.

Do you really think using correct sex pronouns in an unrelated medical clinic is likely to change their mind about them wanting surgery?

If anything I imagine it would make it more likely to get physical intervention to "pass".

I don’t think people should ever be able to expect that others will conceal their sex as if it’s some kind of privileged information and I find some of your expectations unreasonable. And so I support people being able to conscientiously object to using wrong sex pronouns in all cases, personally.

Benefits of using correct pronouns - reminder to everyone of the persons sex so that they get the correct treatment for the immediate problem?

We know that suicidality worsens after 'gender affirming' surgery, so the point about the risks of 'affirmation' is arguable.

But anyway, I don't think anyone should be censured for using any sort of pronoun. One could waffle on endlessly with invented scenarios - the basic point is that this nurse is a good nurse, and was caring for a man despite his racist attack, yet she may lose her job for calling a man 'he'. That's wrong.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11063965/

'Individuals who underwent gender-affirming surgery had a 12.12-fold higher suicide attempt risk than those who did not...
Conclusion
Patients who have undergone gender-affirming surgery are associated with a significantly elevated risk of suicide, highlighting the necessity for comprehensive post-procedure psychiatric support.'

Exactly. It’s a power play. Any thought to how a black nurse might feel being forced to go along with the coercive play acting of an abusive and racist sex offender?

No I'm literally following your argument about not supporting patient's "delusions" in a medical setting.

For that to hold, it has to include all "delusions" that aren't supported by science including religion.

You compared using someone's preferred pronouns to agreeing that an anorexic is fat. That's a bad argument. Obviously the latter is directly harmful and may even be fatal.

A question for @BeLemonNow . Do you think it is safe and acceptable for an entire medical team to refer to an inpatient who is biologically male, as she/a woman/a female patient and have them on a female ward? What about their hospital notes that all staff record and refer to? Are you not concerned that errors in prescribing or requesting of tests could occur due to misunderstanding. Have you been an inpatient in a busy hospital where you could be cared for by 30 or more different professionals during your stay. I can't fathom the idea that the person's true biological sex must not be spoken of. It is delusional and dangerous.

I said: 'It's not helpful to support delusions.'

You said: 'Okay, no supporting delusions of any kind by your view'.

Which is not what I said.

I'm not wasting any more time on this.

It's clear that this poster is only concerned about the feelings of males. There is zero acknowledgement or consideration of the wellbeing or fairness for women, or staff, or anyone other than males who claim a special 'gender identity'.

Respectfully, I have to disagree.

Whilst I may support this nurse and I absolutely support using correct pronouns usage in a clinical context, I couldn't agree with a nurse taking a family aside after a death and repeatedly using he instead of she even when that caused further distress to the family for e.g.

Sometimes, you just have to crack on with the job regardless of your own views.

I guess I'm not as much of an absolutist as some though.

R.e. the patient confidentiality allegations, I agree these should be shared with the nurse as should all allegations as a matter of proper process.

Even if she didn't name the patient (which for all we know she might have done) it may still be in breach of patient confidentiality rules if she released enough private information to the press that this patient and their medical details could be identified. It seems quite detailed, i.e. what prison, when, what exactly their crime was, what their medical issues are.

R.e. ethics the current NHS codes of conduct do require nurses to use "preferred pronouns". There's no exemption on religious grounds. I'm not sure telling transgender patients you disagree with this because of your faith is right. There's other ways to oppose. I'm not convinced it's generally a Christian thing to do either. It's not the same as i.e. refusing to do abortions.

I'm not convinced this is a case we should be supporting on GC, in other words. I don't think supporting all and any GC case is the best way forward in terms of priorities.

I couldn't agree with a nurse taking a family aside after a death and repeatedly using he instead of she even when that caused further distress to the family for e.g.

This isn't something that's happened.

I absolutely disagree that we shouldn’t support this case. This nurse has been treated appallingly. And if it makes me an “absolutist” to believe that no one should be able to lie about their sex and have others dance round them in a power trip denying reality, so be it.

A woman who was pregnant and was having stomach pains went into a hospital and was immediately treated as if she was pregnant and the baby was saved.

Another woman who was 'transgender' also went into hospital with the same pains, but as her record had been changed to 'male' the staff were obliged to carry on treating her as if she was a man, and the baby died. Had they been allowed to see the factual records the baby may have been saved.

@ArabellaScott right now we are onto "ad hominem" attacks on me because you can't discuss reasonably the advantages and disadvantages of the use of "preferred pronouns" or "correct sex" pronouns in a medical setting...

Which includes women who identify as men or non-binary.

Hard cases make bad law. No one should be coerced to lie about people’s sex or other material reality.

@ArabellaScott No it isn't, but you had just said a nurse should never be taken to task for calling someone a he, however distressing others find it.

I'm only following the logic of your own words, and saying that I disagree with them- and giving you an example of why.

If the nurse had used 'she' when telling the doctor, then the doctor would have been within their rights to arrange a transfer to a female urinary issues ward and this may or may not have resulted in further issues to the man with the penis who is wanting people to pretend he is a woman.