Custody officer job withdrawn for GC beliefs - Gribbon (SP legal team) is his solicitor

[InterrobangsArePureBias]

I wonder how many more of such actions will be launched. To adapt Jimmy Doyle’s phrase, “the spectacle of this nation’s [lanyard classes] enforcing moral auto-lobotomy as a condition of entry to [employment]”.

A prison custody officer who was sacked for saying he would not address male-born transgender inmates as ‘she’ or ‘her’ has launched legal action against one of the UK’s largest security firms.
Army veteran David Toshack, 50, was dismissed by GEOAmey during a training course only days before taking up a role as a prison custody officer (PCO) at Kirkcaldy Sheriff Court.
The father of three told a safeguarding workshop that he would not be comfortable using a transgender inmates’ preferred gender pronouns and expressed his belief that a man could not become a woman.
It sparked a horrified reaction from bosses at the firm, which employs thousands of justice workers across the UK, who said his views were against the law and company policy.
…
He said: ‘I’m just a normal, working class person who’s never been in trouble with the law before, not got a criminal record, lived a good life. I’ve been prepared to go and fight and die for my country, and then I have come back here and been told that there’s certain things you can’t think or can’t say.’

https://archive.is/bxjqC

Original story about David Toshack in Daily Mail: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14963309/Prison-custody-officer-sacked-refusing-call-male-born-trans-prisoners-her.html

Ham sandwiches and Irn Bru all round!

From TT

and these are very knowledgeable people, and me thinking that he must be right. But I don't remember him quoting any law on this subject.
DH - you mentioned his demeanour was different, can you describe that
DT - during the course, he was smiley, friendly, happy go lucky.

DT - it was immediately obvious that this was different, very serious.
DH - were you offered to have someone with you in the meeting
DT - they may have made the offer, but I don't recall it.
DH - you mentioned a hypothetical scenario by CH during the meeting what was that

From TT

DT - I think it was searching a transman, that is a woman. And I said I would search anyone they asked me to search. It's just a physical act. He said I was contradicting myself.
DH - were you contradicting yourself
DT - no, i don't think so
DH - you've mentioned the

This won’t mean much in the grand scheme of things. They’ll just retain the same staff and change their uniforms.

Thank you!

I 💙 the gerbils!

I have to iron a trouser hem up at lunch.

From TT

different demeanour, the meeting was going the way it was going, how did you feel
DT - I could tell or I had a feeling where it was going, my heart was pumping, not to over egg it, but it was 2 against 1.
DH - did you propose any compromise in this meeting

I can't find anything re update of Scotland Prisoner Service updating their 2024 policy.

I think AI may be getting mixed up with Police service updating theirs. 🤔

From TT

DT - yes, I said that I would use names but not pronouns, use any name that wanted to use
DH - was that rejected
DT - yes, said it would take me too long complete the prisoner escort record (PER) to write the name
DH - what is a PER sheet
DT - it's a form that accompanies the

From TT

custody, every interaction with the custody is recorded
DH - what is the purpose of the sheet
DT - like in the medical field, if it isn't written down it didn't happen
DH - do you generate the PER or does it come with the prisoner
DT - I think it comes with them unless they are

From TT

new in the prison estate.
Judge - is that a good time for lunch then
DH - yes, it's a good point to break.
Morning session ends.

Indeed. I think it's interesting that SPS announced it the day before this tribunal begins. It means they can distance themselves from the GeoAmey brand, and it reminds the public about GA's reputation while they are defending a tribunal.

Break for lunch - well that was the usual pattern of reality denying from HR etc

Thank you myrtlelion

The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears.

Morning session can be found here:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/2016440899941654797.html

This is an interesting article about the Scottish Government position on this.

https://insidetime.org/newsround/legal-action-on-trans-prisoners-launched-in-scotland/

Includes

'In advance of the latest case, the Scottish Government has published its note of argument, which argues that the position on prisons put forward by FWS contains “fundamental errors” and the Equality Act 2010 “does not mandate sex segregation”.

The Scottish Government says FWS’s argument also contains a “contradiction”, adding: “Prima facie, on the petitioner’s (FWS’s) argument a transman must be held in a female prison, but the Supreme Court judgment contemplates that a transman of masculine appearance may have to be excluded from a female facility. Presumably, the petitioner supports that analysis, but it contradicts the petitioner’s principal argument: biology is not the sole determining factor in such a case.”'

A bit late to the party but have just caught up - thank you so much @MyrtleLion for the sterling work in C&P from TT. I don't have X so this is my means of following the case.

I have to say that I really like the way the cross has been handled giving him the chance to come over as a rational man with firm beliefs - those watching direct - is this how he comes over in person?

This wasn't cross exam, this was his own barrister.

@BettyBooper

"biology is not the sole determining factor in such a case"

Okay, but what about the rights of ALL the women in the prison? How is that not a determining factor? ScotGov are incapable of considering factors beyond what the TW wants.

They would define it as "extremist views"

"Because of your strong beliefs you can't work here"

That's got to be the killer

Just think of all the thought-crimes that man commits 😅

The claimant is really good (I'm going by TT alone). I'd be a rubbish claimant as I'd ramble, get nervous, unintentionally say the wrong thing, another reason why I try to be super careful online!

It's amazing how much easier it is to give evidence when you are telling the truth and not tying yourself up in gender woo...

Surely the response to that isn’t a disingenuous “it’s complicated” but that it’s a statement that biological sex is the important characteristic while also noting that outward appearance can also cause a problem. So it’s a case of “if you are a man or you have taken significant steps to appear as one to the point that someone might mistake you for one”. Of course, this lends itself to the tedious whining about “what about masculine women” but it’s pretty obvious to anyone when women aren’t trying to look like men.

With regards trans people in the prison estate, surely the answer is simply to keep TIMs and TIFs separate, both from the other group and the wider non-trans-identifying estate? So you have four categories: male, female, TIM and TIF.