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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
OP posts:
I'llBuyThatForADollar · 27/07/2025 20:23

Place saving so I can read it after tea!

RogueFemale · 27/07/2025 20:28

WarriorN · 27/07/2025 20:26

It’s absolutely brilliant! She isn’t a dr though, but is extremely clever and knows what a woman is and why that’s important
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379586-a-letter-to-nhs-fife?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

Ah, sorry, didn't realise it'd already been posted but it's so good I don't suppose it matters.

OP posts:
SwivelEyedHagBot · 27/07/2025 21:15

So good. Thankyou.

"But the right to bodily autonomy is a negative right to refuse intervention, not a positive right to demand treatment."

'But... informed consent!" is frequently heard from TRAs - if I want to do something to my body, and can pay for it, well I should he allowed. But that reduces the doctors role to technician, and throws medical ethics out of the window. Seeing it laid out so clearly in this article has clarified the source of my unease with the informed consent model - it puts a gloss of medical 'approval' on harmful choices and thus undermines medicine as a whole.

Bodily autonomy in gender medicine

Why this argument for access to gender interventions in healthcare fails

https://biologyinmedicine.substack.com/p/bodily-autonomy-in-gender-medicine

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 27/07/2025 21:31

That's a brilliant article. So clear and incisive.

RogueFemale · 27/07/2025 23:18

SwivelEyedHagBot · 27/07/2025 21:15

So good. Thankyou.

"But the right to bodily autonomy is a negative right to refuse intervention, not a positive right to demand treatment."

'But... informed consent!" is frequently heard from TRAs - if I want to do something to my body, and can pay for it, well I should he allowed. But that reduces the doctors role to technician, and throws medical ethics out of the window. Seeing it laid out so clearly in this article has clarified the source of my unease with the informed consent model - it puts a gloss of medical 'approval' on harmful choices and thus undermines medicine as a whole.

Yes, she argues it so well and so clearly and logically.

OP posts:
AnotherEmma · 27/07/2025 23:34

Fantastic article. Thanks for sharing.

Wetoldyousaurus · 28/07/2025 04:36

Oh my goodness it’s brilliant.

WarriorN · 28/07/2025 08:51

RogueFemale · 27/07/2025 20:28

Ah, sorry, didn't realise it'd already been posted but it's so good I don't suppose it matters.

its hard to create a title, I should have added her name. Also, community disruption has sunk a number of threads so more threads sharing the letter are very welcome!

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 28/07/2025 12:34

Thanks for the link, I'll read it tonight. 👍

Radioundermypillow · 28/07/2025 12:37

But the right to bodily autonomy is a negative right to refuse intervention, not a positive right to demand treatment.

How does that work with abortion?

Bodily autonomy in gender medicine

Why this argument for access to gender interventions in healthcare fails

https://biologyinmedicine.substack.com/p/bodily-autonomy-in-gender-medicine

MarvellousMonsters · 28/07/2025 12:39

This is such a clear explanation of everything we try to convey.

user3827 · 28/07/2025 14:15

Very clear article. I will share!

SailingWonder · 28/07/2025 16:56

Excellent article

MsMiniver · 28/07/2025 17:22

Radioundermypillow · 28/07/2025 12:37

But the right to bodily autonomy is a negative right to refuse intervention, not a positive right to demand treatment.

How does that work with abortion?

That’s a good question.
I think it works with abortion because a woman who approaches a healthcare provider and requests an abortion is asking for something she needs and is entitled to. She isn’t demanding something as such.

viques · 28/07/2025 17:27

How well, and how fairly, she explains things, and gives unequivocal reasons as to why , for example a dr using “preferred pronouns” is exacerbating dysphoria , not supporting it.

SwivelEyedHagBot · 28/07/2025 17:41

Radioundermypillow · 28/07/2025 12:37

But the right to bodily autonomy is a negative right to refuse intervention, not a positive right to demand treatment.

How does that work with abortion?

It is a good question.

From https://cks.nice.org.uk/topics/abortion/background-information/uk-abortion-laws/ (bolding mine):

A pregnancy can be lawfully terminated by a registered medical practitioner in an NHS hospital or premises approved for this purpose if two medical practitioners are of the opinion, formed in good faith, that either:

  • The pregnancy has not exceeded its 24th week and the continuance of the pregnancy would involve risk, greater than if the pregnancy were terminated, of injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant person or any existing children of their family.
  • The termination is necessary to prevent grave permanent injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant person.
  • Continuing the pregnancy would involve risk to the life of the pregnant person, greater than if the pregnancy were terminated.
  • There is a substantial risk that if the child were born, it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped.

So abortion is justified under as the lesser evil - a necessary healthcare intervention to avoid mental or physical harm. Obviously not all doctors are convinced of this thinking and are therefore permitted to conscientiously object.

NB 'pregnant person' noted - thanks NICE 🙄

RogueFemale · 28/07/2025 18:43

Radioundermypillow · 28/07/2025 12:37

But the right to bodily autonomy is a negative right to refuse intervention, not a positive right to demand treatment.

How does that work with abortion?

To echo @MsMiniver and @SwivelEyedHagBot there is no automatic right to have an abortion, you can't demand it, only request. Two doctors have to agree, which is a high bar. Fortunately, most doctors agree that it is harmful to force women to gestate a foetus and give birth against their wishes.

OP posts:
FlatErica · 28/07/2025 18:59

This is very good, thanks for posting.

Butchyrestingface · 28/07/2025 19:04

RogueFemale · 27/07/2025 20:22

https://janhavinilekani.substack.com/p/inclusivity-in-healthcare-should

I saved it to send to friends who struggle to get it, or who can't see why anyone would care that much about it.

the CPS is so vigilant that they investigate 37% of American children.

Is that TRUE???

RogueFemale · 28/07/2025 19:49

Butchyrestingface · 28/07/2025 19:04

the CPS is so vigilant that they investigate 37% of American children.

Is that TRUE???

It seems very likely that the author checked her facts.

OP posts:
Absentmindedsmile · 28/07/2025 19:52

Fantastic article. Thank you for posting

Butchyrestingface · 28/07/2025 19:54

RogueFemale · 28/07/2025 19:49

It seems very likely that the author checked her facts.

But seems an insane stat nevertheless.

I wonder where CPS gets the resource to afford all that investigating.

OP posts:
Butchyrestingface · 28/07/2025 19:58

RogueFemale · 28/07/2025 19:56

I googled but will have a look at the link, thanks. The search engine stats are even more hair-raising. So sad.

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