Drugs causing sexual incontinence?

[lcakethereforeIam]

Most read story on BBC news when i noticed it

'My dad started spying on my mum' - the drugs causing sexual urges - BBC News https://share.google/jgZmuRy4Q8y0eryQd

Many of the cases we have now learned of involve the exploitation of women and children. These include:
A man who was convicted of child sexual offences after abusing a child
An octogenarian who says he has become addicted to pornography including bestiality and child abuse images
A father of three children who said the drugs left him needing to have sex up to seven times a day - and caused him to walk out on two marriages when partners could not satisfy him
All three men said they had had no previous history of such sexual behaviour before taking the drugs. They also said they felt profound shame about their behaviour but believed the medication helped their conditions.
Other men the BBC spoke to said they did not want to take themselves off the drugs because the medication had led them to discover new sexual interests - which are legal and consensual - and because they enjoyed their increased libido.
One married grandfather in his 60s has begun crossdressing and has entered into online relationships with men. Another man says the drugs disinhibited homosexual feelings he had not previously explored.

My thoughts are all over the place. How commonly are this family of drugs prescribed? How common are these side effects? Apparently they're prescribed to all ages, both sexes. What effect do the have on women who are prescribed them. Apart from being at risk from men who are taking them, do women exhibit sexually risky behaviour that could put them in danger?

I can understand people wanting to maintain access to the drugs if they relieve symptoms of really unpleasant conditions. But am I alone in thinking that the side effects might also be rather enjoyable. Perhaps relieving the symptoms is an excuse to keep enjoying the side effects. Although perhaps not always.

Then there's me wondering if the urges actually came from nowhere or if they're just disinhibited to do what they've thought about doing anyway?

Finally, will this be the new 'rough sex' defence? 'M'lud, I wouldn't have raped that child except I was on these drugs'. I don't believe any drugs can remove a person's agency. Unless they're really far gone with something like dementia. They may make the intrusive thoughts harder to resist but giving into them is still a conscious act.

This is the NHS page

Side effects of ropinirole - NHS https://share.google/oPhRN6TCH1EwC4VgH

Nothing explicitly about 'urges'.

Yes it’s well known - although these are extreme cases. Parkinson’s itself can also lead to disinhibition. It’s really tough.

I read the article and felt quite uneasy. Like you I worry there is the possibility that drugs could become an excuse. But also the disastrous effect on family relationships if someone begins behaving in this way.

But aren't some of these urges already latent in human beings, especially men? We know what happens to women in war, disaster zones and hostage situations. The veneer of civilisation can be quite thin.

Didn't you read the full article? The lack of proper detailed warning is literally part of the problem they're talking about. These drugs are being passed out and the warnings aren't being given despite the fact it's a known issue. I've been on one of the drugs in the article and I can assure you they bloody do have the side effects these people claim they have. And I'm a woman. I had to come off it damn fast because it put me at risk.
What we should be doing is looking at what, specifically, this drug is doing to cause these side effects and use it in research to create a drug for people who idiopathically have these problems and eliminate the problems for them and the wider benefit of society.
You seem hell bent on making this the fault of the men who are affected by these shit medications instead of holding the drug companies responsible for knowing and not adequately warning people or maybe not fudging the research and releasing a drug with these sort of side effects and making a better one instead.

these drugs are very precisely targeting reward centres in the brain and changing people's fundamental desires. there really are some major philosophical questions about how much a person's actions are their own when on drugs like this.

I agree with the article that there should be much clearer warnings about side effects and much closer monitoring on these drugs. just like women taking certain meds have to be v careful to avoid pregnancy, so anyone taking these neuroactive drugs needs to be v careful that their behaviour and personality is not being changed.

In fairness, the NHS guidance says to call a doctor or 111 'now' and get help if you start feeling any serious side effects, incl

• you start binge eating, gambling or shopping uncontrollably or have an unusually high sex drive – these are signs of impulse control disorder.

These are listed as 'serious' rather than 'common' side effects so they must be, by definition, unusual and they need immediate attention.

So the problematic behaviours listed in the OP were unusual, serious reactions to the drug, and should have been reported and dealt with straight away, as the NHS guidance instructs.

One of the women affected, if I remember correctly, was putting herself in significant danger, and it wrecked her marriage. She was cruising bars.

It’s an awful side effect. Awful when people are endangered by the medication, worse when they become predatory towards others.

But without the supervision of someone knowing what to look for, people will be at considerable risk.

@WomenShouldStillWinWomensSportsIsBack That must have been pretty scary and awful to go through. I had read an earlier BBC article about women affected by the 'restless leg' syndrome drug.

Looking at the wider issues, if a man rapes someone while under the influence of a drug than their victim has still been horribly harmed and traumatised, regardless of the motivation of the perpetrator, plus possibly made pregnant in the case of a woman. But nobody wants women taking a drug putting themselves at risk either...

In terms of drug research, this isn't my area but I am not sure that drugs can yet be tailored to only target one type of impulse or function in the brain, as any type of neurologically active drug always seems to come with significant side-effects. The example that springs to mind is SSRIs for depression, which are also reported to have a 'numbing' effect on the range of emotion experienced by patients.

NICE has recently banned new prescriptions of sodium valproate for people who have epilepsy, due to significant harm to unborn children. Patients are only allowed to stay on it if there is no alternative available. So it can happen but even then it seemed to take a very long time from research first showing there was potentially a problem. That period of time during which sodium valproate was being knowingly prescribed despite high risks is the next big drug scandal...

I did read the article, that's why I went to the NHS page to see if it backed up the assertion in the article about the lack of proper warnings. I also am not blaming the men, not entirely. They are victims too. I'm concerned that this will be used as an excuse for sexual crimes. Like rough sex and sexsomnia were/are. Not denying these side affects exist. This is a feminist board though and it's difficult enough for women to get justice. This will be used, sometimes with justification, as a get out for men who have committed horrific crimes.

I'm aware of the wider problems with drug companies, they seem utterly without conscience. I agree in the long term better medications should be developed. But people are being harmed now.

I had no idea about this. Did you before you had them prescribed? It sounds horrific

I experienced this first hand when DH was on Parkinson’s medication. I’m traumatised, I can’t bear to think about it, never mind speak about it. I haven’t even managed to read this short thread but I know I should but I need to work up to it.

I am so sorry @Davros and didn't want to leave your message hanging unanswered.

Would you consider talking to your GP as a first step?

Thanks so much @BadSkiingMum that’s very kind of you. It’s kind-of gone away because DH died last year which isn’t an ideal solution. I’ve got a lot to say about it but I can’t bring myself to drag it up. That article has got an email address to contact the author/researcher so I might contact them.

I’m so sorry Davros. That’s a really shitty situation you’ve had to cope with. I hope you can find a way towards recovery.

Update! I emailed the journalist and they replied immediately. They are going to ring me next week. Thanks so much for the kind words

Free will is not what you think it is.

For example:

Toxoplasma gondii is a parasite that reproduces in cats and can be spread through their faeces, contaminated soil, or undercooked meat. When it infects humans, a condition called toxoplasmosis, it often goes unnoticed, but studies suggest it may subtly alter behaviour. Infected individuals have been linked to increased risk-taking, slower reaction times, and changes in personality traits like reduced fear or caution. This mirrors its effect in rodents, which become less afraid of cats, making them easier prey and helping the parasite complete its life cycle.

Edit:

Oh and roughly 30% to 50% of the global population is thought to carry Toxoplasma gondii, though rates vary widely by region:
• UK & USA: ~10–20%
• Central & South America, parts of Europe and Africa: up to 60–80%

It's well established I think that many - if not most - people have underlying urges or even conscious opinions that they suppress because they know they are wrong/hurt others/ are socially unacceptable. Whilst it would be ideal if the thoughts didn't exist, it doesn't have to be a major problem as long as their brains continue to keep them in check.

It's not just sexual and it's not just men either. When I worked with female dementia patients it was very common for them to display not just sexual disinhibition but also start expressing very racist views towards non-white carers that their family had never heard before. Very distressing all round.

From the linked article:

Many of the cases we have now learned of involve the exploitation of women and children. These include a man who was convicted of child sexual offences after abusing a child

It's totally irresponsible to prescribe these to men who live with / have access to children without at the very least warning everyone involved of the risks. Or how about, not at all if there are DC in the house and this is a credible risk.

I noticed this article and thought to update the thread

Hundreds tell BBC that medication triggered gambling and other addictions - BBC News https://share.google/HbYonyMR7EaZUAnVp

It has successfully been used as a defence

A year ago, a Belgian court acquitted a man who had sexually assaulted his four-year-old granddaughter on the grounds that his Ropinirole medication had caused his paedophilic behaviour.

Most read story on the site at time of posting.

The man who started buying women and initially enjoyed it but now wants to stop, I don't understand how he can't control the compulsion but can successfully keep it secret from his wife, to successfully control the urge to confess.

you should listen to the4 'Shadow world' podcast on the BBC Iplayer. It's got some women's experiences too:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0n05xnm

and @Davros my thoughts are with you. My DF and DM were living with us in Covid and my DF had Parkinson's. He was put on one of the drugs that has these warnings, after already being put on Ropinirole previoudsl and experiencing quite pronounced behaviours. The second similar drug also caused libido extremes, to the point that we all noticed it, and he had no inhibitions to talk about his feelings. I think it pretty much traumatised my Dm and she doesn't talk about it.
It compounded an already upsetting time when he was rapidly descending into hallucinatory Lewy Body Dementia.

"It will be used as an excuse"

In the trail "I raped someone because of the drugs" "Are you on those drugs?" "No".

The rough sex defence cannot be proved because it is one word against the other. It is a dreadful defence, but proving for or against it is hard because there's no evidence.
But the drugs can easily be proved via a blood test or just looking at their prescriptions. So it's not going to be a common excuse.

Seems like an argument not to investigate the dangers of these drugs and be more responsible when prescribing.

@Missproportionate I was interviewed on The World at One on Friday 13th as an introduction to Impulsive being released. It was a bit scary but it’s something I feel strongly about.

You mentioned ‘serious’ as opposed to ‘common’. A radio programme this week suggested they really were common side effects. Something like 1 in 3 or 1 in 6 people struggling with impulse control on these drugs.

Maybe each type of impulse counted separately makes it look less common- binge eating and hypersexuality counted separately, for example, rather than both as impulse control issues.

The recent programme was about the lack of clear warnings given for several years after the issue was identified, during which time people’s lives were wrecked- a child assaulted, a family’s financial security destroyed and left in debt.

I don’t think this is a feminist issue as much as medical malpractice. And as is often the way, women and children are among those most impacted by the consequences, perhaps.

Well done, that must have been a challenge! I might have heard you- I have no idea when I was listening!

I've just noticed another article in BBC news so i thought i'd update the thread

Drug warnings review after some patients 'misled' over impulsive behaviour side effects - BBC News https://share.google/HmNNjgSbWzSfTzYny

It is one of the most popular news stories at time of posting.

There is also a name and contact details for a journalist that I'll past below, it includes his email. I'm not sure if this means MN will nix it🤞

If you have more information about this story, you can reach Noel directly and securely through encrypted messaging app Signal on: +44 7809 334720, by email at [email protected]

Thus is the journalist I spoke to, he’s doing a good job