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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Where does this slug fest leave us? What is at the other side of this?

82 replies

Taytoface · 24/07/2025 22:46

I have followed all the tribunals closely. This one has been the one that more than any other has gotten right to the core of the issue, that it is not fair or lawful or reasonable to expect everyone to accept that it is possible to change sex, and that it is entirely reasonable for a woman in encountering a male in what she could reasonably expect as a SS space to object to his presence regardless of his professed gender identity.

It has also exposed the industrial machinery that has been deployed to silence women and exert maximum punishment on those who speak up. It is fucking horrifying.

I keep wondering where this leaves is in moving forward. There has to be some non negotiables. Single sex spaces, where women are vulnerable and/ or in a state of undress has to be one of them. There has to be an acceptance that TW will be excluded from some spaces, because they are male.

On the other foot, I do think that despite me not believing that men can be women, I would respect preferred pronouns unless and until being clear about sex is important. In my office based professional life, sex is largely irrelevant. I will address people as they request. This is a courtesy I am happy to grant, and goes some way to helping trans and non binary colleagues feel comfortable in the workplace, something I think everyone is entitled to.

I am also very wary of some of the rhetoric I have seen in these threads. Ascribing really sinister pseudo psychological motivations of some of the people involved (e.g. is KS in love with BU???), digging into family backgrounds, scrabbling around to acsribe the worst possible motivations for people on Dr Us side. Granted, this has been evident in spades on the other side, but fuck me it is grim. All of it.

Scorched Earth leaves little room for regrowth. I am really struggling to see how yet another inevitable and well deserved legal victory will actually get us to a place where we can figure this shit out. What is the mechanism for that? It certainly won't be the courts.

OP posts:
Arlingtonchase · 28/07/2025 10:04

No. The whole point is that women haven’t been allowed to object to or even discuss this huge societal change; it has been imposed without consultation with the people most widely affected.

The court case is allowing people to say and hear things that were previously not allowed to be said or heard. That can’t be wrong.

WandaSiri · 28/07/2025 10:10

anyolddinosaur · 28/07/2025 09:56

Unfortunately we are a long way off the other side of this. When we finally get there I hope there will be more tolerance of people dressing as they prefer, have sex with anyone willing to have them but not expecting to be in women's sports, on women's shortlists or pretending they are actually women.

I am concerned that we may be moving towards a period where trans people face discrimination in housing or employment because they are seen as difficult to manage and troublemakers. Some are, some are not but anyone openly trans may be tarred with the same brush.

No-one has much trust in politicians but the class bias in this may encourage the rise of people like Farage and the tory party to be become more right wing in response. We dont need more extremism. I'm also concerned about a loss of trust in the NHS.

You make good points with your second and third paragraphs but with regard to the first: surely men and women have been free to dress as they like and sleep with other consenting adults for decades, haven't they? What the GII has done is make gnc-ism into a symptom of a condition. Which it wasn't before.
The other issue I have is that cross-dressing is fundamentally different from gnc-ism. Dressing up asa member of the opposite sex in clothes designed and coded for the opposite sex is more like extreme conformism. And that's without entering into the fetish aspects.

anyolddinosaur · 28/07/2025 10:17

No they havent. There has still been fuss over men in dresses and although it's more accepted than it was same sex attraction.

WandaSiri · 28/07/2025 10:30

anyolddinosaur · 28/07/2025 10:17

No they havent. There has still been fuss over men in dresses and although it's more accepted than it was same sex attraction.

If that's a response to me, I'm going to reiterate that "men in dresses" is not gnc-ism.
Kaftans tunics kimonos, sarongs, frilly shirts, brightly patterned shirts, velvet or brocade jackets... Those are all options that men have tapped into.

Enough4me · 09/10/2025 23:21

For the complete non-believers that there's something floating about or in minds that is called gender, the court cases simply shine light on the truth.
I don't care what clothes people wear, just don't ask me to pretend sex isn't real.

NoNever · 09/10/2025 23:54

I have zero interest in being to told to “be kind” or “respect pronouns” when those two things are used as direct weapons to destroy women’s rights, sports, single sex spaces, dignity, safety and privacy.

Oh no, you couldn’t have been raped because everyone on this ward is a woman, a she/her.

Stop being so mean!!! Transwomen are women. Why would you object to she/her being your rape counsellor.

Transwomen are women even when using her penis to rape you and of course you must use she/her in court.

Transwomen are women, so why should she/her be banned from women’s sports.

And on and on and on.

I’m not playing that game anymore. Politeness is used to force women to capitulate to the desires of men. So no.

Namelessnelly · 10/10/2025 05:54

Taytoface · 25/07/2025 06:56

I totally agree these cases have been completely necessary and indeed the only effective defense. I am proud to live on Terf Island. I am angry it has taken the immense sacrifice of a few brave women to get us here, but very grateful to them for where we are now.

But the joy of seeing this insanity exposed under the steely glare of NC is tainted by the sense that I am not sure that what happens next will be where I would want us to go.

One poster highlighted how this will be weaponised by various parties. It will damage the left, where I would normally most comfortably sit, and embolden the right. It will get more polarized and I suspect trans people, many of whom just want to get on with their lives, will be caught in the middle.

What I would want is an open debate on how to reasonably accommodate trans people, with some give and take on all sides, and some acknowledgement that #nodebate was toxic, manipulative and incredibly dismissive of women.

I just don't see this happening. The gender loons will dig in and more people will be emboldened to give trans people a hard time. Employers might take note, or they might just get less inept at discriminating against GC women. I suspect the latter

Women have been suggesting third spaces for years. Transpeople said no. There is no other compromise. Either women are entitled to single sex spaces or they are not. If transpeople want accommodations thst do not impact women’s rights, that’s on them to sort. Why is that women’s problem? What do you think women should “give”?

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