Why do people use human abnormalities to prove sex isn’t binary?

[madeupnameagain]

I am really at a loss why people use human birth abnormalities to prove that sex isn’t binary.

It’s no different than declaring that humans can have one or more heads because very rarely humans are born as part of co-joined twins.

How can people rationally use DSD’s to prove sex isn’t binary?

Firstly because the fetish side of the whole movement was very well known about and providing an “evidenced” medical reason garnered more sympathy, support and encouragement to push for certain laws.

Secondly claiming it is biological means there are children who are born trans, thus ensuring more likelihood of parents and society getting on board. Trans children also provide more “authenticity” to adult transness.

Separately, I see it as a modern version of a Victorian curiosity show.

it demonstrates really poor understanding of mammal or specifically human reproduction.

But it also relies on really poor understanding of basic science to fool others into thinking ppl who say they’re trans are due to biological factors.

it’s a Trojan horse.

I think it's all they've got. If your political goals depended on proving 2+2 = 5. The first thing to do is cast a sliver of doubt on the idea that 2+2=4.

You'd say maths is complicated, and waffle on at length on topics like complex numbers in the hope of bamboozling your opponent.

You cast yourself as the learned professor teacher trying to convey nuance to the hopeless uneducated simpletons, who still havent progrssed past 2 + 2 = 4.

Because it allows the gullible to believe that people aren’t necessarily what they appear to be. Wolves in sheep’s clothing really are sheep, you know. The plump bald man behind the curtain really is a great wizard.

Your horse is a unicorn and I’m the queen of the faeries.

And along with that comes the tantalising opportunity to be free of all responsibility for consequences.

The problem is in your last sentence: it's not rational.

We try to teach our children to be inclusive of people who in any way look different to them, not to be racist or gingerist, for example. We recognise that people born with, say, additional or missing fingers, are neither to be mocked not to be forced to conform to the norm. We recognise that people with disabilities are equally valid to people without disabilities, and that understanding how to support people with disabilities is a far better way of creating social equality than pretending that either they or their disabilities do not exist.

Some people have swept it all together and made acceptance of difference into a neo-religion which is far more important than functioning in the real world. This attitude IMO is just as harmful as the earlier belief that people with differences should be reshaped into something that looks acceptable to society, or else hidden from society.

Desperation.

It is because the ultimate aim is validation at all costs. So the collateral damage of damage to children, massive insult to people with DSDs and the stripping away of single sex services mean nothing in the greater case of meeting the needs of trans identifying men. And to do this you either have to force people to accept that gender identity always trumps sex (ie biological sex is a transphobic dog whistle) or that sex isn’t binary. They use people with DSDs to try and prove the latter.

The curiosity show approach draws people in, clearly provides a platform for scientific research according to a previous poster who was describing papers looking at trans identification in twins.

it’s also all a very lucrative industry (surgery, hormones, campaigning, charities etc) and they need to provide a scientific backdrop.

Because they are evil and happy to exploit these people who have told them time after time that their health conditions are not relevant to this argument.

They're clutching at straws and/or aren't very intelligent.

Because wibbling on about DSDs is a convenient distraction from discussing whether people who are unambiguously male and don't have a DSD should be given an all access pass to female only spaces based on nothing more than how they claim to feel inside.

Of course sex is binary. That's why the very tiny number of people who aren't completely unremarkable XY males or XX females are considered to have a disorder.

In a futile attempt to validate their fetishisms and also to compel everyone to go along with the lies.

try to prove……..

The whole thing reminds me of conspiracy theorists. The type that think they are superior intellectually but everyone knows they are lacking in any sort of critical thinking.

Because they have no better argument. They are clutching at straws.

There's an old American lawyer's saying.

When the law is on your side bang on the law.
When the facts are on your side bang on the facts.
When neither the facts nor the law are on your side bang on the table.

This is them banging on the table.

I think it’s part of a policy of hooking onto other causes to add to legitimacy. It is tricky, I have lots of sympathy for people who have dsd. It must be incredibly difficult. I’d agree with PP abiut the using of trans children, There’s has been an encouragement to weaponise mental health and suicide ideation in children.

Its obfuscation, sex is a spectrum, dsd’s, brainwaves, hormones. Clownfish can change sex! Be kind. No debate ( don’t think about this too much or you are a bigot / transphobic / akin to a nazi).

I think it’s why TRAs are so quick to disavow the Isla Brysons of the world. If they honestly believed they’d be declaring him a woman and campaigning for him to be in a woman’s prison. They know it won’t wash so it’s back to let’s look over here.

I’m genuinely tired of the how would I possibly know my / anyone’s sex as I can’t see their chromosomes. Pretty sure you can tell at a glance 99%+ of the time.

That's great @lechiffre55 !

Whilst steadfastly ignoring or refusing to engage with counter arguments that highlight the problematic nature of 2 + 2 = 5 for others.

You are quite right to question this OP, it is a political action of leveraging a group's medical condition to destabilise established science.

Of course, queer theory needs this destabilisation so that it can rebuild language to suit the theoretical framework. That being that a male person can be female in any way and can be included in the language needed for female people to use to uniquely describe themselves.

The group who supports that the philosophical belief of gender is prioritised over sex often leverage other group's axis of oppression as well. For instance, those who are same sex attracted and sometimes those who face racial discrimination.

Here is an example of leveraging other groups through forced teaming in this Messaging Guide : Transgender Youth and the Freedom to Be Ourselves

From December 2021
Transgender Law Center

static1.squarespace.com/static/5fd0f29d0d626c5fb471be74/t/61b13d00236e2f7f2dbb9a36/1639005441624/Transgender+Youth+and+the+Freedom+to+Be+Ourselves.pdf

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/4439659-Ryan-Grim-results-of-latest-trans-activism-poll-A-tweaked-playbook-for-the-US?reply=113763453

As posters have mentioned. This is usually also done to add legitimacy and to create an emotional response. Utilising that emotional response is manipulative.

Nice question.

I agree with a lot that's been said, especially the destabilising and needing to sound scientific.

Also, there's this trend towards individualism as if any idea that treats people as units of a larger whole is somehow unkind. Subjective experience rules. And any generalisation is suspicious because of hearsay and anecdote that contradicts it. Ironically that actually reduces personal choice and responsibility rather than increases it.

Just to chuck some thoughts out there...

"Cigarettes are not bad for you because my grandad smoked his whole life and didn't get ill"

"BMI is faulty because it doesn't work on an individual basis"

I think the internet and context collapse have something to do with it as well. And confirmation bias. If someone wants to find evidence to support their felt sense of be kind then they will. Not to mention if they have a strong sense of "sides" i.e. this person who is on my side says it so it must be true.

Here's one of their tactics: posting links to highly-specialised articles which may or may not support their argument, but they claim they do, and they bet on nobody having the specialist knowledge to say otherwise.

The condescending, blinding with science 'educate yourself - you might benefit from reading this this and this' is a common tactic. It tends not to work very well on here because we are fortunate to have some very knowledgeable women who are qualified to assess these scholarly articles and call BS, if appropriate.

.

And confirmation bias. If someone wants to find evidence to support their felt sense of be kind then they will.

As ever, comedy - funny because it is so ridiculously implausible - predicts reality.

No need for the computer program, just TRAs.

It makes as much sense as trying to argue that because some people don't have two legs, that humans aren't bipedal.

They are either
a) brainwashed
b) too dim to understand the truth or
c) desperate and a vague hope of bamboozling general people who haven’t given it much thought is all they have left.

Trans ideology has used dsd in two different ways. One was to claim trans is a dsd of the brain. Its where the female brain in a male body comes from.

The other idea is that a trans person who is modifying their body becomes 'intersex' - they become outwardly one sex and internally the other.

Lots of people who have been, quite frankly, conned by this, are now claiming that sex is so complicated and DSD are so common, we cannot possibly know a persons sex 9,999 out of 10,000.

Thread on this deconstruction method.

x.com/wokal_distance/status/1290479330477240320?s=46&t=TMUOZCqGbx3Pv9MjeQqrig