Inappropriate comments at work - help me explain why

[Batgin]

posting here as I know how articulate this part of mumsnet can be on feminist issues and I need some help. A older male colleague has a habit of making comments that make me uncomfortable, think comments to do with training your wife,telling me coming back from maternity as I was asking questions that 'this is why women shouldn't come back from maternity leave' etc.

I have a meeting today with HR to talk about him introducing himself as 'a prostitute of the IT world', as he is a consultant. This was in a meeting I was the only woman in, and I work in an office where it is 90% men.

Please can you help me articulate why these comments make me so uncomfortable and aren't ok for a work environment.

Because prostitute is a sexual word. Sex has no place in your line of work.

Thanks - that is my reasoning, but was hoping for some more depth to it I guess, and why it's not just 'banter'. Last time I raised this issue, I was moved teams, and made to feel it was my issue/fault

You don't need any more depth. You should not have to be subject to comments of a sexual nature in the workplace. Its harassment.

ChatGPT is good for this kind of thing.

"1. Frame it with clarity and professionalism:

I’d like to raise concerns about a pattern of inappropriate comments made by [colleague’s name] that I believe create a hostile and unprofessional work environment, particularly for women.

1. Address each type of comment and explain why it’s a problem

Sexist or undermining maternity leave

He has made comments implying that women who return from maternity leave are less capable or out of touch. For example, when I asked a question after returning, he said, ‘This is why women shouldn’t come back from maternity leave.’ This comment was not only unprofessional, it was sexist, and it undermined my credibility in front of colleagues. It reinforces outdated stereotypes about working mothers and creates a culture of exclusion.

'Training your wife' remarks

He’s also made remarks along the lines of ‘training your wife’ which are deeply misogynistic and objectify women. These kinds of jokes normalize power imbalances and disrespect in relationships, and they don’t belong in a professional environment.”

'Prostitute of the IT world'

In a recent meeting where I was the only woman present, he referred to himself as ‘a prostitute of the IT world’ in reference to being a consultant. This not only brought inappropriate sexual language into the workplace, it made me feel extremely uncomfortable. As the only woman in the room, I was left feeling isolated, as though I was expected to tolerate language that wouldn’t be acceptable in any professional setting.

1. Emphasize the broader impact:

Taken together, these comments create an environment where it feels harder to be taken seriously as a woman, and where sexist attitudes are allowed to go unchecked. It affects my confidence in contributing in meetings, and it sends a message that this kind of behaviour is tolerated.”

I'd personally take out the bits about affecting confidence but the broad framework and comments seem sound.

Bog standard bullying with a dash of direct discrimination

The following characteristics are protected characteristics—

• age;
• disability;
• gender reassignment;
• marriage and civil partnership;
• pregnancy and maternity;
• race;
• religion or belief;
• sex;
• sexual orientation.

training your wife
assuming you are married and a wife?

Then he is sneering your PC sex and your PC married

telling me coming back from maternity as I was asking questions that 'this is why women shouldn't come back from maternity leave' etc.

That is about as hostile a work environment as a woman can come back into.
And if others are hearing and are not closing that BS down the company have a big problem.

'a prostitute of the IT world'

Sexual harrassment by creating a hostile work environment.
And not exactly a nice branding image either.

And you dont have to explain justify why the actions and words make you feel anything.

You are saying he is being unprofessional in the workplace.

Its up to HR to rebut.

Ask HR to justify how what he said falls with in the professional conduct expected in a professional office.

You are there to work so banter is not a get out of jail, any comment in that direction can be shut down with "we are not friends we just work together and I would like HR to spend some time training staff (not just him) on respectful professional conduct"

It becomes a constructive dismissal issue if it is a cultural norm in the office to give women hassle.

Tbh if he’s making comments about women coming back from mat leave etc I’d pick my battles and raise one of those rather than using the word prostitute. It would be much easier to argue the point about.

@Cutleryclaire the coming back from maternity comment was 4 years ago now, when it was raised (we didn't have HR at that point) I was switched to a different team, and it felt very much like I was the issue

I don't think you do need to articulate why, I would just give HR the facts i.e. the things he has actually said. Very likely they already know; if it's a usual thing for him then others will have heard him speak this way.

@VintageDiamondGirl we have only had HR for just over a year, and he is a remote worker, and I'm the only woman he regularly works with (we're on the same team again). There are very few women in my office as it is, and ones who have confirmed to me that they have felt they have experienced sexism in our office, don't go to HR as it's never been part of the culture (HR are literally our newest starters).

I just feel very isolated and alone in the office, and that if I make a fuss, I'm seen as the problem, as none of the men in the office every speak against it, and it tends to be very subtle like talking over women, but not the guys, ignoring points made by women but listening if they are backed by another guy, not including me in meetings or involving me, and then there are the actual comments that are made, though more infrequently.

While the mat. leave comments were some time ago it may be worth raising to show that this is part of a pattern rather than an isolated incident. It will also mean that HR will be aware of preexisting issue should he say similar to any other women in the futures.

I bet he says he's not sexist, too...

In the meeting, tell them his conduct is offensive and appalling and he needs a stern, verbal warning not to speak to you like that.

He needs to learn to communivate appropriatly and to stop being a moron.

i think all you need to do is quote him… he speaks for himself 😆😆

I must be rhe only person who wouldn't be at all bothered by those couple of comments. I hope you have a bit more to use because to conplaint to hr about those "incidents' in my opinion are a massive over reaction.

Hi. This is not ok, but you know that!

This link from ACAS is really useful. It's important to note that the comments do not have to be intended to be harassment, the fact that they have caused offence is enough.

ACAS Sexual Harassment.

I have personal experience of this myself (and had a great lawyer friend on my side) and now in a new company and just done the training.

An incident 4 years ago (which has already been dealt with?) and saying he prostitutes himself?

When used as a verb, prostitute also means 'to use yourself or your abilities or beliefs in a way that does not deserve respect, especially in order to get money'. It's just not a sexual word in this context.

Not worthy of involving HR imo.

Keep a log though if there is other stuff you feel is worthy of reporting.

I agree with this.

I’m sure there will be another couple of pick mes who agree with you.
It’s not about a few incidents here and there, nor whether an individual woman feels uncomfortable, but rather a pattern of behaviour and the impact this can have on the overall culture of the organisation.

Calling himself a “prostitute of the IT world” is wildly inappropriate and at the minimum using inappropriate language in a meeting.

I guess he sees that sort of thing as banter but banter is just a word bullies use to say it wasn’t their fault and other people are getting upset about nothing.

For context, I’m nearly 60 and I’ve worked in engineering or IT for many of those years, often as the only woman. I’ve worked in offices where there were “page 3” type posters on the walls so I’m not unused to that sort of stuff but these days I would challenge that sort of language as inappropriate.

The maternity leave comments were out of line, but IMO “prostituting yourself” just means selling your skills to the highest bidder, I don’t consider is to be a sexual comment

@Clychaugog prostitute is about selling sex and sexual contact.

The sexual bias of women being the seller and men the buyers is why few women would even think to use that word as verb in any social context where she wants to be respected.

If someone has sold you this BS

When used as a verb, prostitute also means 'to use yourself or your abilities or beliefs in a way that does not deserve respect, especially in order to get money'. It's just not a sexual word in this context.

Its about sex and is a "sexual" word.

@RebeccaRedhat
I must be rhe only person who wouldn't be at all bothered by those couple of comments.

You may not be bothered but the OP is in a business which is mainly men who never have to worry about growing babies and how that impacts on their careers. Yet they should all be educated enough to know that type of shit talk can cost their employer money and reputation loss and future business.

Its "low level" sexist bullying which is hardest to stop in businesses which make it harder for women to progress in their careers.

While the 2 incident are not enough for an investigation it could prompt HR to run a basic "dont be an ass because we dont want to be sued course".

@AnSolas

That bullshit came from the Cambridge dictionary 😆

Would have checked Oxford too but it's behind a pay wall

I don't think we'll agree on this one.

Surely a contractor is a 'Prostitute of the IT World'. Paid to do tasks that the existing staff are unwilling to do.

A Consultant would be more of a Belle du Jour, paid highly and perpetuating the happy hooker myth.

I work in IT, I'd probably shrug off the prostitute thing because it is a common comment about contractors. Men really do want to buy into the sex work is work myth, and don't want to see that having to sell sex is actually worse than having to fix an ancient COBOL program.

It would be viewed as a microagression within the org where I work, so while it would be fed up to HR, it would probably just result in a 'light chat' and some mandatory training.

(I hope there sre still ancient COBOL programs out there. It makes me feel better about the age of the stuff I have to work on.)

One of the dictionary which says the word woman can mean adult male human?

Its a slur word in the context given.

The only way his comment makes sense is if the listener understands what "to prositute" means and why it results in such a negitave social valuation "to use yourself in a way that does not deserve respect".

In any case no one in the meeting can say the "OP prostitutes herself for her department" and expect to still be employed by the company.

So the choice of language is creating a hostile work environment and is very unprofessional.

And even your point of reference opts for males within a context :

"Some critics say she prostituted her musical skills by going into pop rather than staying with classical music."

" She went to work in Hollywood and was accused of prostituting herself. "

Hummm.. akward?

Meaning of prostitute in English

prostitute
noun [ C ]
uk
/ˈprɒs.tɪ.tjuːt/ us
/ˈprɑː.stə.tuːt/

a person who has sex with someone for money:
work as a prostitute She'd worked as a prostitute long enough to know how to survive.

male prostitute

Compare
harlot old use disapproving
working girl old-fashioned informal
escort noun (SOCIAL COMPANION)
harlot
hooker (SEX) informal
renter UK slang
rent boy UK informal
sex worker
tart noun
working girl

• She sued the paper for damages after they wrongly described her as a prostitute.
• She accused him of having phone sex with prostitutes while she was away on business trips.
• I noticed a couple of prostitutes plying for business on the corner.

prostitute
verb [ T ]
formal disapproving
uk
/ˈprɒs.tɪ.tjuːt/ us
/ˈprɑː.stə.tuːt/

to use yourself or your abilities or beliefs in a way that does not deserve respect, especially in order to get money:

Some critics say he prostituted his musical skills by going into pop rather than staying with classical music.
prostitute yourself
He went to work in Hollywood and was accused of prostituting himself.

prostitute yourself formal

to have sex for money:
She was arrested and charged with prostituting herself.

prostitute | American Dictionary
prostitute
noun [ C ]
us
/ˈprɑs·tɪˌtut/

someone, usually a woman, who has sex with people for money

prostitute
verb [ T ]
us
/ˈprɑs·tɪˌtut/

to sell yourself by having sex with people for money, or to force someone else to prostitute himself or herself:

Hundreds of widowed or hungry women have had to prostitute themselves to survive.
fig. Some critics say that he is prostituting his writing talent (= using it in a way that does not deserve respect, esp. to earn money).