More than half of non-binary Scots say they have poor mental health

[Pluvia]

https://www.thetimes.com/article/884b9f42-90f7-45e5-a984-191606d2f75e?shareToken=924deb97f3f0562e8251304c9673bd9a

Well there's a surprise...

Just spotted this. Brilliant, @Helleofabore , I'm cutting and pasting for future use if that's okay with you?

I could have written your post word for word. It makes me so sad and angry that a young person in our family didn’t get the mental health support they needed in their early/mid teens. And now, nearly 10 years on, they live in this grey space where they are still trying to decide who they are. Meanwhile, so much life and potential happiness has been passing them by.

I am going to add to this. Inspired by Suggestion’s links which try to leverage legitimate claims about laws banning same sex marriage to make a case for people with transgender identities being discriminated against in law.

If groups in society tell a group of people that they are being discriminated against because of legitimate concerns about extreme body modifications that may be life limiting and shortening to make a person’s body fit their philosophical belief about themselves this is not going to improve their mental health. If groups then, through fallacious comparisons (including by academics) equate that legitimate concern with historical illegitimate discrimination, how the fuck do you (general you) expect that group’s mental health to improve?

Of course, one of the way is for society to just give the group what the group demands. But the analysis is showing that this doesn’t prove long term mental health.

But those who are entrenched in supporting that this group’s philosophical belief should be prioritised in laws and policies over material fact based on established science, will not acknowledge the failure to provide evidence of the mental health aspects long term.

They will however try to politically leverage any other group they can in support.

So sorry to hear that @CagneyNYPD1 and I hope they do manage to get the support they need and find a way to being happy one day.

poppycock

I wish I could find this because I haven't been able to for a while, but there was a study done on self-ID in one of the Scandinavian countries, this must have been way back in at least 2018. It was a small study, and it showed that self-ID done absolutely nothing to improve the quality of life for 'gender diverse' (hate that term tbh) people. All the issues such as discrimination in employment and housing, access to mental health services etc, it was all still there just the same and self-ID didn't improve anything. It didn't even function as a hammer for social acceptance. It was just a big performative nothing.

It's clear to see that in the UK it's the same, with the added bonus of being a cash cow for lobby groups who have led this group of people up the garden path.

Non binary identities right now are primarily a political identity.

This doesn't seem to allow for feminist discomfort with the gender rules, roles and stereotypes that trans people are exemplifying.

Wrong thread

How tediously predictable.

You're doing it again. You've now responded to several of my points without engaging with any of them, and you've been doing it since the first question was posed to you: 'What do non-binary identities have to do with prejudice and stigma that gays and lesbians face?'

You've now pivoted multiple times; first to unsupportive environments for LGB individuals, then to generalised prejudice, and now, apparently, to anthropology.

This thread is about the reported mental health outcomes of people identifying as 'non-binary' in contemporary Scotland drawn from 2022 census data. That is the scope. Your invocation of supposed 'enduring expressions throughout history and cultures' is entirely irrelevant to the subject. It contributes nothing to the question of whether this modern identity category warrants political equivalence with sexual orientation, nor does it demonstrate that the factors affecting gay and lesbian mental health can be meaningfully extrapolated to 'non-binary' individuals.

We are not discussing historical 'third gender' variance of indigenous or pre-modern societies. It's entirely irrelevant, but again, pivoting appears to be your MO.

If you have a coherent response to the points actually raised, I'll read it. If not, you're welcome to continue treating this discussion as an improv class in derailment and intellectual laziness.

Exactly, and kudos to you for pointing this out. So many of these 'third gender' roles Western queer theorists continuously bang on about and romanticise were not expressions of some prelapsarian gender utopia; they were mechanisms; cultural adaptations to make, for example, homosexual male desire intelligible and acceptable in societies where explicit homosexuality was stigmatised or forbidden outright.

Indeed. It has been discussed on so many threads now. It is always good to point it out because some people will believe it otherwise.

It was a rather refreshing moment when the prime minister of Samoa clarified that yes, the Fa'afafine are male and that he would not support them playing in female sporting events.

Just to add also, that of course when support groups over sell privileges to people as ‘human rights’ the cruelty becomes very apparent. But it is not the cruelty of those denying those privileges.

The cruel act is that groups supposedly caring for the needs of that group have deliberately over reached and told them that those privileges are human rights.

i think this study might give another perspective here to this thread.

From a mental health point of view, there are a few considerations. Poor mental health could, of course, cause a person to become a bully. Plus no doubt the lack of appropriate mental health care because there is a focus on affirming a particular group’s identity can result in ongoing and long term poor mental health.

https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2020.612424/full

Transgender Identity Is Associated With Bullying Involvement Among Finnish Adolescents

January 2021

Background: During adolescence, bullying often has a sexual content. Involvement in bullying as a bully, victim or both has been associated with a range of negative health outcomes. Transgender youth appear to face elevated rates of bullying in comparison to their mainstream peers. However, the involvement of transgender youth as perpetrators of bullying remains unclear in the recent literature.

Objective: The aim of this study was to compare involvement in bullying between transgender and mainstream youth and among middle and late adolescents in a general population sample.

Methods: Our study included 139,829 students in total, divided between a comprehensive school and an upper secondary education sample. Associations between gender identity and involvement in bullying were first studied using cross-tabulations with chi-square statistics. Logistic regression was used to study multivariate associations. Gender identity was used as the independent variable, with cisgender as the reference category. Subjection to and perpetration of bullying were entered each in turn as the dependent variable. Demographic factors, family characteristics, internalizing symptoms, externalizing behaviors, and involvement in bullying in the other role were added as confounding factors. Odds ratios (OR) with 95% confidence intervals (95% CI) are given. The limit for statistical significance was set at p < 0.001.

Results: Both experiences of being bullied and perpetrating bullying were more commonly reported by transgender youth than by cisgender youth. Among transgender youth, all involvement in bullying was more commonly reported by non-binary youth than those identifying with the opposite sex. Logistic regression revealed that non-binary identity was most strongly associated with involvement in bullying, followed by opposite sex identity and cisgender identity. Transgender identities were also more strongly associated with perpetration of bullying than subjection to bullying.

Conclusion: Transgender identity, especially non-binary identity, is associated with both being bullied and perpetrating bullying even when a range of variables including internal stress and involvement in bullying in the opposite role are taken into account. This suggests that bullying during adolescence may serve as a mechanism of maintaining heteronormativity.

Here is Colin Wright’s thoughts about the study.

https://www.realityslaststand.com/p/new-data-flips-the-transgender-bullying