School sports day

[CrownCoats]

Having attended my daughter’s primary school sports day last week I’m left wondering if girls and boys should be competing against eachother. In year 6 they compete in separate races but all other year groups have mixed sex events. From what I could see, almost all of the races from about year 3 onwards were won by boys. The same applies for long jump and some of the throwing events.

I spoke to some parents at the time who seemed to agree that it wasn’t very fair, although others said there are also some boys who aren’t very athletic who stand no chance of winning.

Some girls were left feeling like there wasn’t much point participating if they can’t win and I tend to agree with them. When rates of participation in sports for girls are so low, why are we forcing them to compete with boys and putting them off at such a young age?

There have been several studies showing the physiological benefits that pre-pubescent boys have when it comes to sport. They are neatly summarised here https://womenssportspolicy.org/pre-puberty-male-female-children-show-marked-differences-in-sport-performance/.

It would be interesting to hear other people’s thoughts on this.

Hi OP

There is plenty of information stashed on this thread

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5142027-save-female-sports-evidence-thread?page=1

There are country wide reviews on children over the age of 6 years old from Greece, Australia, Denmark and the USA and they have all concluded that even at 6 years old there is a distinct male advantage.

Dr Greg Brown has also done specific reviews for different streams of athletic events. They are listed there too.

I agree OP. Girls deserve to have their own events. Mixed sex sports has the potential to discourage girls from participating in sport. And has been a recognised issue with girl's having low participation in sport.

It seems to be counterproductive to be encouraging them to participate and all this 'wondering why they drop out' while making girls compete against boys because some people have completely misunderstood competition. And that it is a truly exceptional girl who beats boys, and that in comparing the two competitors, the boys who are coming second are nowhere near as exceptional as the girl who won.

There is a great analogy that Ross Tucker uses between male athletes competing in female sports and being beaten. Of course, it also works for boys and girls when girls win .

If a rider in the Tour de France has a motor on their bike and still loses, it is false to say that rider didn't have a competitive advantage. The truth is that the rider is nowhere near exceptional compared to the winner.

"I spoke to some parents at the time who seemed to agree that it wasn’t very fair, although others said there are also some boys who aren’t very athletic who stand no chance of winning."

This is not a counter argument - that the good, athletic girls should suffer to hide the fact that some boys are crap and spare their feelings. The crap boys don't deserve a chance at winning, whereas the good girls do.

Of course they should be separate, unless they are in team events with 2 girls/2 boys per team. There are difference between physiology and tendency to push in front. It would also be good for the boys to learn to cheer the girls on, rather than seeing them coming in behind the boys.

The counter argument always focuses on girls and boys aged about 11/12. At this point the girls have often had growth spurts and are ahead puberty wise - this is the point in time that girls are closest to "catching up," physiologically. It still is no reason not to have separate events.

"I spoke to some parents at the time who seemed to agree that it wasn’t very fair, although others said there are also some boys who aren’t very athletic who stand no chance of winning."

Why the fuck does it matter that some boys stand no chance of winning?

If the school wants to get rid of competition and focus on 'fun' and 'participation', there are ways to do this. Having mixed sex competitive events is the direct opposite, yet I know some schools will still consider events where they award winners as being 'just for fun'.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5365721-trans-girl-winning-every-race-at-primary-sports-day?page=1

On this thread above, you will see plenty of parents arguing that this is primary school and it is all just a bit of 'fun'. They are wrong. If any student is awarded for a place in a race, it is competitive not 'just for fun'. The dismissal of the needs of girls in sports from some parents is very concerning OP.

I agree with you, OP, and I think this is an odd and clearly unfair decision on the part of the school. The important question is at what age does it make sense to segregate the sexes for sport - perhaps it needs to be as young as five or six.

I agree. If events are just for fun then mix up teams and avoid any individual races etc.
If the school is having individual events at all they need to be single sex. In a race between 4 girls and 4 boys the girl who is second girl but 5th or 6th overall may conclude she isn’t very good at running and consequently not that interested in it. If she came second in a girls only race she might see it very differently. There will be people who say it is not all about winning, but it’s human nature to be drawn to things that we think we are good at over those we think we are not.

I definitely agree and would ask they reconsider for next year. I’d point out that girls participation in sports is not great and anything school could do to improve this was a positive step.

My kids school segregates by sex. They did experiment with House relays with a child from each primary running. In P1 and P2 some were girls were the best in their house, above P3 it was all boys.

My kids school also do things other than running on sports day, which is good for including kids who aren’t great runners.

Schools are badly in need of some guidance on this, because I know that there's a lot of inconsistency out there.

My kids' state primary as usual had mixed PE lessons but then sports teams and sports days were strictly split by sex [thankfully they didn't have to deal with any trans-identifying kids that I know of].

My kids' state secondary has, bizarrely to me, mixed PE lessons in year 7, but then teams & sports days strictly split by sex & PE lessons are split from year 8 upwards. At sports day, occasionally in the case of exceptional kids [e.g. who are county or national level, who will effortlessly win at a canter against their true peers] they'll move them up a category for a challenge, e.g. a y7 boy will run against y8 or y9 boys, maybe a y10 girl will run against y10 boys, etc.

DS's Junior School has mixed relay races doing silly things like dressing up, or obstacle races or tug of war. That's a distinct disadvantage to the sporty kids of both sexes, who are used to winning things, but suddenly find themselves on teams with average children who slow it all down. It's a leveller.

Is there a separate sports day where children who are exceptional at sports get to participate in competition?

No. A few of us did run this by the Head Teacher, who was enthusiastic at the time, but nothing came of it. He has a way of being agreeable without actually doing anything.

There is a school football team and a Cross country team, but that's usual in a lot of schools. It's disappointing for the genuinely able children.

I can imagine that it must be frustrating for children who are competitive.

My son just turned 7, he’s quite good at cross country. They run the age groups with same distances together at club level so u7 and u8 are together, as well as boys and girls, but the results are measured for u7 boys, u7 girls etc. My son and another couple of good runners are always the first few placeholders of the u7 boys, I don’t actually know what the top u7 girl runners look like as they don’t come in right with the first boys (it’s a 1km race). The first over the line is always a u8 boy too. This is across perhaps 8 clubs in our city, and obviously if you’re at an athletics club there’s some running talent /interest, you can’t just say oh the girls weren’t a very sporty group in our year like parents at school might say.

My daughter's school split the individual events into boys & girls for Sports Day from Year 3, which seems about the right time to me. (The team events are mixed teams.)

Why not from Year 2 though since the science is now showing advantages from age 6? If the group can learn to follow race instructions, isn’t it worth it to give the girls the best fair race possible? Otherwise, maybe the school shouldn’t give a reward for placing in the mixed sex races under Year 3, just a participation award.

I've not read up on the science - it's just that it's this year, Year 3, in which the difference in performance between athletic girls and athletic boys - not only at Sports Day - has become obvious. No objection to splitting them in Year 2 if that's what the boffins are saying. Year 6 is too late though.

Don't think participation awards would help dodge the issue - the kids keep track of who's won, after Reception at any rate.

I wonder if the next schools guidance that relates to sports need to modify their recommendation and to list the studies from the different large scale studies done.

You are right though, younger kids do know.

My daughter’s school started this 3 years ago. From year 2 onwards only 1 girls placed in the top 3, there were 2 boys in the race. It’s very unfair on girls. I didn’t know about it because I hadn’t been to sports day when the change was made. I’m waiting to hear why the change was made.