Hamas and 'genocidal sexual violence'

[ArabellaScott]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1mz8gxzg82o

A very hard read, inevitably.

I skipped parts.

The broader point raised is about sexual violence in conflict, and how it can be prosecuted.

Did you take this from the CITME thread? Sexual violence in war has been happening since the dawn of time. Why all of a sudden are we taking notice just because Hamas committed the atrocious act?

I can't really face the reporting on this because it hurts so much that it doesn't seem to matter to so many people.

(Didn't take any time for one example right here, at 00:06. Sexual violence has been happening since the dawn of time so we should ... what? not discuss it? old news? let everything just keep going the same way? Who cares?

You know what? If you don't care, why don't you not read this thread? Go off and start your own thread about the violence against women that rises to worthiness in your world.)

Feminists have been taking notice of all of these instances, very carefully, for a very long time. If you have not noticed this before, perhaps that says something about YOU? It tales a particular kind of vile misogynist to whatabout re sexual violence targeted as is disproportionally is against women - ON the FEMINIST board.

What is wrong with you?

Of course only very special people are allowed on the FEMINIST board.. why do we even need to read this

Do calm down. Calling out hypocritical behaviour is hardly misogynist. What about all the women and children this happened to before October 7th? Why is no one advocating for them?

Clearly missed the point didn’t you.

I think I’ve been clear on my point. Why is this only an issue now?

Your point seems to be that, according to you, this is the first time this issue - sexual violence in war - has been brought up here, and the OP is somehow a hypocrite for only mentioning it now. That’s a massive leap of assumptions. You’ve assumed this hasn’t been brought up before (it has) and the OP hasn’t seen this as important before (she has). So why the need to be so confrontational about it? The OP has posted it because it’s obviously a new article on the topic. Does this specific news story only warrant attention if there’s a history of similar stories brought to attention here? How bizarre.

Can you explain how posting this makes someone a hypocrite?

I think most of us on FWR and other feminist discussions are aware of the fact that women and children are the victims of sexual violence in war (and natural catastrophies).

And that includes UK soldiers.

What happened after the attack on 7 October (and I am sure this happens elsewhere) those tasked with dealing the horrors were not and did not look at what they say from a VAW perspective.

But within I think 24 hours or so, a group of Israeli feminists, some active in rape crisis support work' got together and went to as many of the scenes of violence and recorded what they saw and what it indicated about sexual violence.

This was published in full in the Israeli newspaper Haaretz but was not considered an "official" report. There was a thread based on the article on FWR.

At some later date UN representatives asked to make a full investigation but were refused permision by the Israeli Government to come to Israel to carry out an investigation.

So because the UN hadn't done their own report, and the only existing one at that time was the voluteer feminist one, there was no "official" comment from the UN. This is what led to the endless newspaper reporting about how no women's groups had condemned Hamas. (Not forgetting all the other areas of the world where women and being subjected to sexual violence in war zones, but nobody cares because they are in Africa or Asia.)

As far as I know this recent article is not the actual report but a long extract published in the Times last saturday https://www.thetimes.com/article/2e4199e3-ef9f-43d6-91c7-353cc731e203 ( https://archive.is/Q8yQe )

And if this report makes a difference to how the men in charge on both or how ever many sides in an area of armed conflict respond to acts of sexual violence against women, that would be a break through.

But some of you might remember there was a summit in London under the joint auspices of Angelina Jolie and William Hague that was attended by representative of any number of governments all swearing and signing up to ending these acts of violence. Sadly, if anything, it seems to have got worse. Or maybe there are more areas on violence in the world.

(I've found a link. This international committment was 11 years ago. https://www.reuters.com/article/world/africa/angelina-jolie-uks-hague-vow-action-against-sexual-violence-in-war-idUSKBN0EL0PX/ )

Sexual violence is a huge problem in warfare, but the perpretators don't usually film themselves committing these atricioties, as some Hamas members did on 7 October.

The response of the Israeli army to the attack does not negate the appalling violence carried out that day.

Nobody says it it does.

And the idea that filming, or photos haven't happened elsewhere in situations which were are least as bad if not worse, is just not credible.

Every time someone tries to make out that this was somehow exceptionally worse than elsewhere is just not useful.

Nor is using the word genocidal.

As if in other parts of the world an element of ethnic cleansing or "genocide" doesn't happen. All this does is feed into what has already happened making this atrocity a political football, rather than acknowledging that sadly this is happening in many countries to women and children.

Sadly implying that other women aren't important.

Umm…. We are and were? Maybe you’ve missed that?

People are still denying that Hamas committed rape on October 7th. Even on a thread on here, yesterday. It’s disgusting.

On what date should everyone have taken notice? And are the people who failed to take notice on this arbitrary date barred from doing so at any point in the future? What if you weren't born when an atrocity happened? Does that mean you may never notice it at any point? You claim to be calling out hypocrisy but that isn't what you're doing at all, is it?

We. See. You.

Its not. This board frequently has discussions on this topic, both the Oct attacks and others.
One of the many things that horrifies me about these particular attacks is how we immediately get people like you trying to minimise and challenge us for taking about them, despite the fact that this was one of the most brutal mass sexual attack on women in recent history.
Your trying to shut that discussion down shows just how far we have to go in raising awareness on the topic, and thst we need to talk about this more not less.

I took this from the BBC.

I've posted about this before.

I know sexual violence has been happening since the dawn of time.

"Why all of a sudden are we taking notice just because Hamas committed the atrocious act?"

Because Hamas livestreamed and posted all over the Internet for the world to see? They've tried to delete and deny, but the world has kept copies.
Men from these videos have been identified.
Women have always been taking notice, it's only men who ignore or deny or deflect (I wonder why?).

I am living in a peaceful country, born long after the last war, and even I know two(!) women who were raped in war or the child of a rape (both 2nd WW). It was never an issue until about 25 years ago or so, when the first books about it were published. Good on the Israeli women for not being quiet, and for not letting themselves being shut up by the men (in their own government, fgs!).

Probably because it was widely denied at the time...and not even reported on by much of the mainstream media.

I don't think that sexual violence has been ignored, or certainly dismissed in other situations; certainly not here.

'Whataboutery' has no purpose, I suggest, other than to deflect.

Thanks for that. The silence on the subject afterwards was astonishing. Especially from the UN.

It isn't. It was a major 'issue' at the time and the graphic and appallling nature of it is what led to the ongoing situation in Gaza; yet many didn't want to acknowledege that in an honest or open way.

The problem for some in even mentioning the sexual violence and mutilation that occured on October 7th - is that acknowledging it in an honset way would create too much cognitive dissonance, of the sort that would disrupt the ongoing campaign of villification of a whole population.

It's been an issue since Oct 7th 2023, it's just those Leftist's who are hard of hearing, have refused to acknowledge the atrocity that happened on that day. It doesn't fit their narrative of being Hamas 'victim's' you see.

Why are you objecting to it being raised now, does it inconvenience your narrative as well?

Jesus christ, have a look at yourself, would you say that about Sudanese women who are currently being brutalised.