Macho men, known to sexually abuse women now seem to be aspirational role models or hereos.

[IwantToRetire]

Sean Combs, also known as Diddy, was found not guilty on the most serious charges in his trial, including the sex trafficking of Casandra Ventura and ‘Jane’, an anonymous claimant. He was found guilty of two counts of transportation to engage in prostitution.

As the verdicts were being announced, a party broke out outside the courthouse. Combs' supporters chanted his name, danced, and even covered themselves in baby oil – a grim reference to the large amounts of baby oil discovered at Combs' residence, which, many witnesses alleged, was involved in the music mogul's drug-fuelled sex marathons, or ‘freak-offs’.

Combs’s lawyer Marc Agnifilo called the verdict a “great victory” and said the jury “got the situation right – or certainly right enough” as he stood outside the federal court following the verdict. “Today is a victory of all victories,” he added.

https://www.glamourmagazine.co.uk/article/juries-rape-trials-diddy

The article is actually about whether rape trials should have juries. And I know the trail was really upsetting but I am really posting because I cant believe that, and it isn't just men, some people think someone like this is worthy of support.

And last week I saw this on C4 news https://www.channel4.com/news/conor-mcgregor-mma-fighter-alleged-rapist-irelands-next-president and no more than I want to diminish the awfulness of the rape charges in the first link, do I want to diminish current political tensions in Ireland. But how do these type of violent men come to be seen as the answer or admirable.

In the same was as Trump I suppose.

Tate and Robinson.

Or is it that this is just as it has always been, that men are allowed to be violent misogynists but people think a domineering bully is the best sort of leader.

Pump. Was hidden but now unhidden.

That’s very concerning

When it seemed first time round Trump was just some sort of temporary aberration, it didn't seem that concerning.

But now we have all these younger manifestations of it, really overt and an indication that the idea of male supremacy has not been rolled back in any way.

Swaggering around, and what in previoius times would have been seen as a send up, they are now adored not just by young gullible people, but older ones.

And of course all with really reactionary ideas about women.

It's a bit like the film from some time ago now, Wall Street, where Michael Dougles played the nasty, money grubbing banker (or something like that). And he said in an interview some years later that he had meant the character to be really vile, no morals etc., and to his embarrassment men were coming up to him saying his character was their role model!

Although of course with any trial about rape and sexual abuse, it is all too common that somehow the man would have people making excuses for his behariour, and as likely, if not more so, that the women giving evidence are all liars.

Whilst those who may not be going around playing the hard man, you can be fairly sure they are absorbed in online male fantasies of violence against women.

I find it really scary.

And cant imagine what it is like for young women growing up today.

Yeah it's awful.

However, I think it has always been this way. Bad lads and all that. Don't have an answer 😔

Another odd trend... how funny...

I just dont remember a time when they were so publicly celebrated.

There might be rumours about some in the public eye, and in our own lives some sort of gossip, or warnings.

But now it seems to be aspirational.

It is concerning. All I can say is that it didn't used to be a crime to rape your wife, etc, so the fact of much abuse probably wouldn't have been even known or recognised.

What about pedophiles like Michael Jackson and Huw Edwards getting off their charges?

DP was genuinely shocked when I told him the other day that it was legal to rape your wife until the 90s. He'd assumed that had been made illegal decades before. He was horrified.

The internet and social media lets these bitter, angry men find each other and get each other riled up and glorying in their hatred of women.

Absolutely. It's terrifying.

Bitter, angry women always seem to adopt cats and treat them kindly.

Its not just the internet and social media.

If you watch the news report from Ireland (and this is why I said in the OP including it wasn't meant to be a comment about Irish politics) but seeing clips of this man, and the now almost obligatory allegations of sexual violence against him, and C4 were inferring he could be sucessful.

And all those men cheering on Combs.

So Trump round one wasn't a sort of peak macho grandstanding, but the start of a more and more overt acceptance in the MSM implying this is normal male behaviour.

So lectures and hysteria about how the internet is poisoning the minds of boys and young men, isn't the problem. The problem is that what had previously been just in dark corners of the web, is apparently now normal behaviour in our daily lives.

A horrible inflation of what happened when pornography was no longeer sold under the counter or from the top shelf.

Now we have men, claiming to be political saviours, who incorporate swaggering masculinity as part of their votablility.

So lectures and hysteria about how the internet is poisoning the minds of boys and young men, isn't the problem. The problem is that what had previously been just in dark corners of the web, is apparently now normal behaviour in our daily lives.

No lectures or hysteria from me. I simply made the same point that you just have: I didn’t say the internet was poisoning young men’s minds, I said that men with bad views on women were finding each other online and forming toxic groups with toxic (woman-hating) behaviour. They embolden each other to bring those behaviours into their daily lives, it would be unrealistic to think that they don’t.

So Trump round one wasn't a sort of peak macho grandstanding, but the start of a more and more overt acceptance in the MSM implying this is normal male behaviour.

Chatting to mate earlier, I said, Trump is a big part of this. His shtick is, I'm a cunt, and it's OK to be a cunt. And the Diddys of this world couldn't agree more. Lowering standards in public life, all the time.

Sorry wasn't meant to be a comment at you, but since that tv series, all these really stupid politicians are going on about its all down to the itnernet.

Not acknowledging the culture of gangs, music, and too many dads leaving pornographic material around etc., is part of what is normalising these kings of the dung heaps into "every day" men folk.

i think a massive part of this is the (false) belief that is pushed to so many young men that women routinely make false allegations for some kind of mythical "gain"
Its absolute rubbish, but its a pervasive lie that has taken hold

On the sex side of things, I find it so weird that all this creepy, violent stuff is seen as 'macho' in any way. To me, if you can only get it up while watching someone else rape your girlfriend, you're really not much of a man. Surely it's embarrassing. Why was Diddy using all these men to have sex with his partners? Was it because he couldn't actually do it himself? Surely there is nothing less 'manly'. I don't like all this glorifying of machismo but if we're (society) going to do it I really don't understand how it has become that men who like to be peed on, watch other men rape, or carry out rape or sexual violence themselves are seen as masculine or desirable in any way. Surely the height of 'masculinity' is a man who knows how to really please a woman? Who has women flocking to him because he provides such an incredible sexual experience not has to force himself on women because he is so pathetic, disgusting or such a bad performer in bed. I absolutely get that that's not what rape is actually about but I really don't understand the narrative here. I'd die of embarrassment in any of these men's positions never mind the morality.

Have you read Joan Smith's 'home grown'? The links between dv and terrorism. I'll also point to research on men who attack women in online games.

Inadequate men use dv and abuse both to try and raise their status among other men, and as a way to vent their frustration and.anger at being low status. Also a defensive measure to avoid facing their own painful emotions.

It's bullying. I know that may sound simplistic but I think that's the root cause.

There's an underlying societal issue in which we are now more prone to believing our own lies once we've got away with it the first time.

Choke your gf against her will and she stays with you. She must like it and she begins to believe she likes it too.

Rape someone you fancy, it's just sex innit.

Make money from degeneracy on OF, it must be empowerment.

That little voice, conscience, is just not made for a modern world - the biggest lie of all.

I suppose what I was trying to say isn't that there hasn't always been male behaviour that is totally misogynistic and violent towards women, but it was not overt in terms of public figures.

It was seeing the news story from Ireland that really set me off, shortly are one about Comb and people outside cheering him on, as McGregor came over almost as a pantomime figure. As though somebody had created a character for a comedy or something. As in the example of the film Wall Street where a character was meant to personify evil and corruption, was actually taken up as an aspitational role model.

And if the news story is to be believed, McGregor is a serious political contender.

But in a way it is no different to Trump series one, when it seemed bizarre to have the President of the US casually breezing through (and admired) allegations of sexism towards women. And then realising many, many people just didn't care.

Not sure why I should be so shocked that violence and exploitation of women isn't seen as being a character flaw.

There is zero chance of McGregor being the irish president.

He would need 20 members of the oireactas or at least 5 county councils to nominate him.

Thanks!

I didn't mean to imply he might win, but was taken aback that he had any supporters at all

He woul need that level of support to get on the ballot. He would then need to win a public vote.

I think even his "fighting" supporters wouldn't vote for him to be president.
Although i am an old woman, so i could be wrong.

I suppose the other side of what I have thinking, trying to say, is that basically (some) men have no shame!

Convictions or attitudes that would not have been made public are now seen as normal.

Worse aspirational.