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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Museums Association response to EHRC consultation

77 replies

Manderleyagain · 04/07/2025 14:19

The MA have published their response. They seem to have piled it all into the 'anything else you want to add' question. It's not a surprising response, but it is a bit embarrassing. Most is irrelevant and I'm not sure what the ehrc will do with the information. And they seem to have forgotten that in the same way that you can say "this activity is only open to under 12s" and people are expected to heed that, you can say "this facility/session/group is only for those born female".
It does raise some issues about practicalities - i think it's possible that courts (especially lower courts) could take the view that not providing unisex loos thereby making trans people use their own sex's loos could be discrimination against pc of gr for some trans people. But they don't put it like that.

I have tried to bold the more relevant bits of the response.

https://www.museumsassociation.org/campaigns/advocacy/our-response-to-the-ehrc-code-of-practice-consultation/

I have pasted the full response in here:

"Do you have any other feedback about the content of the code of practice that you have not already mentioned?

The Museums Association (MA) is a dynamic membership organisation that campaigns for socially engaged museums and a representative workforce. We work ethically and sustainably and collaborate with partners where we have common aims and values. We advocate for and support museums and everyone who works in and with them so that the value and impact of museums and their collections is realised. We are the only organisation for all museums in the four nations of the UK. We recognise the differences in context, culture, legislation, policy and practice between the nations and we strive for equitable treatment for all our members in the UK. We are independent and not-for-profit and advocate for museums without fear or favour from governments or funding influences.
The MA is committed to equality, diversity inclusion and believes museums should be safe and inclusive spaces for all including trans staff and audiences. Our Code of Ethics for Museums asks museums and those who work in and with them to treat everyone equally, with honesty and respect. We have endorsed Trans-Inclusive Culture guidance which was published by the University of Leicester’s Research Centre for Museums and Galleries. The work was carried out in the context of growing uncertainty and anxiety surrounding this topic, and it aims to bring clarity, common sense, pragmatism and ethics to a debate that is too often distorted by misinformed, highly charged and polarised viewpoints.
We are concerned that the EHRC Code of Practice focuses on exclusion rather than inclusion. We would like the Code of Practice to provide examples of how trans people can still be included in services and spaces in the context of the ruling.
Museums have the power to inform and enrich people’s understanding of identity and belonging through the stories they tell, for example Gender Stories, currently on display at Bristol Museum uses collections to explore and celebrates the complexities of gender identity before the exhibition tours to Brighton Museum and Art Gallery and National Museums Liverpool (Gender Stories | Bristol Museums). The EHRC Code of Practice does not clarify whether people can still refer to trans women as women and trans men as men or use their correct personal pronouns. We believe that it is important for museum staff and audiences to have their identities respected. This is especially important when museums work with trans communities to improve representation in collections, exhibitions and programmes. We believe trans communities should have agency to be represented in museums in a way that is consistent with how they identify.
The definition of sex in the Equality Act is binary and does not include intersex or non-binary people. Therefore, this raises the question of how audiences who identify as intersex or non-binary can be included and represented in museums.
At a time when society is experiencing increasing polarisation and challenging issues, museums can play a role in delivering social justice, bringing us and our communities together, actively breaking down barriers and fostering conversation and reflection.
The MA’s Museums Change Lives campaign highlights how museums across the UK are doing this by working with community partners, listening to and acting on their priorities, and setting common goals to achieve more inclusive and equitable spaces. These partnerships mean that museums of all sizes are using their spaces and collections to make a positive difference to people’s lives by working collaboratively with community groups, health charities and other third-sector organisations.
For example, the Unicorn exhibition at Perth Museum centred local LGBTQ+ stories. As part of an exploration of Scotland’s national animal, the exhibition focused on the unicorn as an LGBTQ+ symbol. The exhibition was a critical and commercial success and created a safe, relevant and celebratory space for LGBTQ+ people in Perthshire. Had the museum not respected the pronouns and identities of community participants or excluded participants from using certain facilities, they likely would have caused reputational damage, isolated the LGBTQ+ community and become an unwelcoming and potentially unsafe space for LGBTQ+ people.
The guidance suggests that allowing trans people to use toilets that reflect their gender identity would put organisations at risk of legal consequences. However, it would be humiliating and distressing for a trans person to be forced to use toilets that do not align with their gender.
We think it would be inappropriate for museums to ask staff, volunteers or visitors about birth sex as this might violate trans people’s human rights to privacy. It would also be impractical for museums to do this without causing offence, distress or discrimination.
Asking museum staff to question a person’s sex would likely result in them having to profile visitors based on appearance. It asks museum staff to actively exclude visitors from certain facilities such as toilets which would likely cause harm and create a negative visitor experience. Trans people have historically been excluded from museum collections and spaces, therefore, as a sector we need to be working to remove barriers to access rather than creating additional barriers.
We encourage museums to create welcoming spaces for visitors and we believe it would be unethical and impractical for museums to gatekeep who can access services, events and toilets.
Ethical concerns aside, museum staff are overstretched and underfunded so would not have the capacity or resource to employ staff to check the birth sex of every visitor who needs to use the toilets. It is impractical to ask visitors to carry identification of sex at birth with them in order to access facilities and services.
We are concerned by the suggestion of using birth certificates to prove someone’s sex. Many people do not know where their birth certificate is, and many people such as tourists and refugees may struggle to provide a birth certificate. Overall, it is at odds with museum practice which seeks to improve access and participation in museums.

Our response to the EHRC Code of Practice consultation - Museums Association

The Museums Association has responded to the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) Code of practice for services, public functions and associations:

https://www.museumsassociation.org/campaigns/advocacy/our-response-to-the-ehrc-code-of-practice-consultation/

OP posts:
Coatsoff42 · 04/07/2025 17:13

But do they check anyone’s sex or birth certificate now? Have they ever? How do they keep cis men out of the ladies toilet? Oh yes, they understand how society works and they choose to use the correct toilet.

Why all these institutions are so certain that they will be fighting an onslaught of rule breaking trans people, it shows a lack of faith in the transgender community’s ability to fit into a society that values all members. Entirely justified.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 04/07/2025 19:14

I think the average age of the public sector is 8 years.

Nothungrycat · 04/07/2025 19:56

The Gender Stories exhibition that they refer to (currently in Bristol) is one of the shoddiest exhibitions I've seen in a long time - a random collection of images, some very dumbed-down "community responses" and more trigger warnings that i've ever seen. There is one "gender critical" badge in the entire exhibition which is hidden behind a little curtain, just in case it upsets anyone. The entire exhibition is at least in a separate room, but the entire foyer of the Museum & Art Gallery has been taken over by an enormous mural featuring 32 (?) stylised transmen with obvious masectomy scars. I find it really hard to believe that no-one in management had thought through the implications of this, given that the museum is visited by school and family groups, but - having read this response - I kind of understand why. I did write and complain by the way, and got back a really unhelpful response....

helpfulperson · 04/07/2025 20:05

Interestingly all three of the transwomen I know in real life work in museums.

mejon · 04/07/2025 21:57

Ditto. I despair 🙄

mejon · 04/07/2025 22:07

PatsFruitCake · 04/07/2025 14:39

I work in the sector. It's all tediously familiar.

My ditto was in response to this PP. I am a twit who can't quote post properly!

LastTrainsEast · 04/07/2025 22:22

Men go in the men's and women go in the women's.

There!

Sorted.

I'm bored now with institution's flights of fancy regarding the law. Just obey it.

AWanderingFool · 04/07/2025 22:29

PatsFruitCake · 04/07/2025 14:39

I work in the sector. It's all tediously familiar.

Yes, many organisations in the museums sector are completely captured.

Sometimes in my area it feels like if there isn't a lgbtq+++ or save the planet angle to a potential exhibition then it won't be considered.

It'd be nice to have a variety of other themes and not just focus on these two.

FuriousAndFrustrated · 04/07/2025 22:30

I know someone who works for the Museums Association. This doesn't surprise me at all :-(

Rightsraptor · 04/07/2025 22:31

I had no idea the unicorn was the national animal of Scotland.

Do many countries have mythical animals to represent them? I can't help feeling that Scotland might be a little more grounded in certain aspects if it didn't so whole-heartedly chase the impossible, like unicorns and changing sex.

SidewaysOtter · 04/07/2025 22:58

Ursulla · 04/07/2025 15:17

The Museums Association (MA) is a dynamic membership organisation that campaigns for socially engaged museums

Well that explains all the verbose, preachy, hierarchy of victimhood exhibition notes stuck to the walls that have been getting on my tits these past few years at local museums.

See also: Tate Britain.

I went to the otherwise-excellent Hogarth exhibition a few years ago and the clunky notes next to some of the exhibits almost ruined the whole thing. Shite about "thinking on how the items in this painting might have ended up in London as a result of slavery" or some such.

They have been endlessly criticised for it and I can only hope they bloody stop it now there's an overhaul.

moto748e · 04/07/2025 23:07

If the museum establishment is serious about that, I gather there's a few artefacts that other countries would very much like returned to them...

RedToothBrush · 04/07/2025 23:11

IDareSay · 04/07/2025 14:34

"Trans people have historically been excluded from museum collections and spaces, therefore, as a sector we need to be working to remove barriers to access rather than creating additional barriers."

Really?! Have museums had people on the door denying entry to 'trans people'.

Honestly, these people have lost the plot.

Historically?

Yeah about that.... how much history do we have here?

Lunatone · 05/07/2025 03:49

IDareSay · 04/07/2025 14:34

"Trans people have historically been excluded from museum collections and spaces, therefore, as a sector we need to be working to remove barriers to access rather than creating additional barriers."

Really?! Have museums had people on the door denying entry to 'trans people'.

Honestly, these people have lost the plot.

It is very much in the nature of the Omnicause to promote the belief in ideas that may not have popular support or, indeed, may not have any evidence of existing. The purpose of promoting these ideas is not necessarily to work towards an end point, but to show that you, the person promoting a concept, have more refined intellectual sensibilities than the average person.

There has been a bit of discussion online about the notion of the "overproduction of knowledge" in relation to the growth in university attendance over the last thirty years or so, but I think it's interesting to consider how this plays out in the museum industry. Traditionally, the point of the graduate job was that university graduates had more refined skills than the average person, and could carry out tasks which would be of commercial or public benefit. For the museum curator this was curation and interpretation. You would go to a museum and be engaged and entertained by the insights of individuals with specialist knowledge. This used to work well.

The twenty-first century, however, presents museums with a few problems. Firstly, the attendees are far more knowledgeable than they once were, in a world in which a large proportion of people of working age have some experience of higher education. We have, in effect, gone from a position where people went to a museum or gallery to be educated, to one where attendees are likely to be visiting due to the fact that they have pre-existing knowledge of and interest in a subject. Secondly, whatever interpretation is available is now dwarfed by the amount of information available online on a given subject. Facts which might once have required research in specialist libraries can now be found with a quick search of the Internet.

(I note that in my case I have a history PhD and a good working knowledge of the art world through family connections; I don't often get insights from reading the captions...)

So, if you are a curator, one response is to claim an intellectual-elite status through a claim (or, I would argue, a pretence) that you are more refined and insightful than even the educated attendee. Thus, you "discover" how museums have neglected trans people, or marginalised discussion of slavery, or failed to deal with climate change, or whatever else might form a cornerstone of current support for the Omnicause. For that is how you show your intellectual sensitivity, and justify why you need to be employed.

Anonycat · 05/07/2025 03:58

What a load of trite, cliched rubbish. And they clearly don’t understand the real meaning if "intersex".

It reads as if it’s been written by an earnest A-level student.

hholiday · 05/07/2025 04:40

I mean, I basically want to know, if I go into a ladies’ toilet and find a man in there and, as a result, feel intimidated or even threatened by his behaviour- either towards myself or any of the other female users - will the staff react in any way that is at all helpful? Will they remove him? Will they call the police? Will the police do anything? Statements like this leave such questions hanging in the wind.

RobinHeartella · 05/07/2025 06:01

Rightsraptor · 04/07/2025 22:31

I had no idea the unicorn was the national animal of Scotland.

Do many countries have mythical animals to represent them? I can't help feeling that Scotland might be a little more grounded in certain aspects if it didn't so whole-heartedly chase the impossible, like unicorns and changing sex.

There's the Welsh dragon, Albanian double headed eagle, probably more I can't think of...

But yes I agree with your last point!

Barbadossunset · 05/07/2025 06:16

It's quite concerning that the writer doesn't seem able to understand the scope and meaning of the judgement.

I think they are deliberately acting daft and pretending to get the wrong end of the stick.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 05/07/2025 06:21

Who says our Dragon's not real, that's fighting talk that is. 😁

CinnamonCinnabar · 05/07/2025 07:35

Historically museums, galleries and art schools excluded women or restricted their access - funny that's not mentioned. I've never seen any evidence of this historical exclusion of trans people.
Even the oh so liberal Bauhaus art school deliberately forced women students into craft training areas, then restricted the number of female students accepted and applied different criteria for male and female applicants. It's massively hypocritical and downright lying to claim trans people have more historic discrimination and disadvantage than women arts and museum sectors.

PatsFruitCake · 05/07/2025 07:43

AWanderingFool · 04/07/2025 22:29

Yes, many organisations in the museums sector are completely captured.

Sometimes in my area it feels like if there isn't a lgbtq+++ or save the planet angle to a potential exhibition then it won't be considered.

It'd be nice to have a variety of other themes and not just focus on these two.

I subscribed to Disney Plus recently (specifically to watch The Bear) and on my home screen among the recommended viewing were programmes with transgender themes. That was the only protected characteristic promoted. Not LGB or older people, or disability (a much higher proportion of the population). It's propaganda. I'll be cancelling my sub shortly.

Rightsraptor · 05/07/2025 09:15

RobinHeartella · 05/07/2025 06:01

There's the Welsh dragon, Albanian double headed eagle, probably more I can't think of...

But yes I agree with your last point!

So they do, Robin. I'd never really thought about it. We do like to hang on to our mythology, it seems.

SabrinaThwaite · 05/07/2025 15:10

Well that was quite the word salad of Things That Haven't Even Been Remotely Suggested.

TempestTost · 05/07/2025 15:29

IDareSay · 04/07/2025 14:34

"Trans people have historically been excluded from museum collections and spaces, therefore, as a sector we need to be working to remove barriers to access rather than creating additional barriers."

Really?! Have museums had people on the door denying entry to 'trans people'.

Honestly, these people have lost the plot.

I see this in libraries too. "LGBTQ+++ people have been excluded from libraries so we must make a point of specially including them and having Pride flags everywhere."

Except - the premise is kind of BS.

POWNewcastleEastWallsend · 05/07/2025 20:27

hholiday · 05/07/2025 04:40

I mean, I basically want to know, if I go into a ladies’ toilet and find a man in there and, as a result, feel intimidated or even threatened by his behaviour- either towards myself or any of the other female users - will the staff react in any way that is at all helpful? Will they remove him? Will they call the police? Will the police do anything? Statements like this leave such questions hanging in the wind.

I posted this on another thread as an off-the-top-of-my-head suggestion for the sort of "door notice" that might work for a Women's Changing Room:

Adapted for a Women's Toilet Block (the "woman icon" being a proper door sign). Not perfect but I think signage needs to be clear and informative, not leave visitors wondering about what to do and how management will react.

🚺

Ladies Toilets

  • The Ladies Toilets are for females only
  • Children: Boys under the age of 8 are allowed.
  • Management reserve the right to remove anyone else using the Ladies Toilets.
  • We provide both sex-segregated and unisex facilities
  • Harassment of staff and other customers will not be tolerated and may be reported to the Police.
  • Please report any issues promptly to Reception Staff or Security.
  • Safeguarding women, children and vulnerable adults is our top priority.

Thank you for your cooperation, please leave these facilities as you would hope to find them and, most of all, enjoy your time here with us.

-----

Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992
Equality Act 2010
UK Supreme Court, 16 April 2025