Womens hour on Ash Regan's private members bill in the Scottish Parliament

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002f8lw

Ash Regan on fire here.

She was excellent.

This is being opposed by Scotland for Decrim an org made up of past and active sex workers:

https://scotlandfordecrim.org/

The Nordic Model (what Regan is proposing) is also opposed by Amnesty Int, The World Health Org, Human Rights Watch, UNAIDS, Freedom United (an int. anti-slavery org), PICUM (org re the rights and safety of migrants in Europe), GAATW (Global Alliance against Traffic in Women), HIV Scotland, Scotland for Decrim and other sex worker orgs such as Scottish based Scot-Pep.

https://decrimnow.org.uk/open-letter-on-the-nordic-model/
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In 2022 Belgium became the first European country to pass complete decriminalisation (the model all the above support), showing that the Nordic Model isn't the only "modern" option to discuss.

Also going to leave this here. Since N.Ireland passed the Nordic Model back in 2015 (very easily given the power and support from their Church) there has been one conviction of paying for sex in a decade. Yes, one (sentence was a donation of their own choice to the court). Turns out it's very difficult to enforce and sexworkers are not willing to snitch on their clients. Unless you want cameras installed in every sex worker's bedroom it's very difficult to enforce (and very expensive attempting to as well).

I see AR also wants a 6 month prison sentence for this, well good luck for that too since Scottish (and Britain as a whole) prisons are bursting at the seams and prisons are needing to let prisoners out early.

"Ash Regan on fire here."

She hasn't always been top of her game and has been the subject of ridicule on the topic...

To me, Nuala McGovern seemed quite hostile, with the usual (these days) Woman's Hour comments like "That's one opinion", and "I don't have Amnesty International here [to refute your assertions]". Is she against the Nordic Model, or is it an interviewing style designed to allow the interviewee to make her points clearly? It felt very much as if Ash Regan's statements were constantly being undermined or belittled as just one opinion, and that there were more expert people who opposed them.

I've noticed this sort of thing before, in interviews relating to gender issues.

Forgot the link for N. Ireland

www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-67802849

I agree - almost as if every advocate for actual women needs to be given a good pasting. To be honest Nuala seems very uncomfortable discussing serious issues for women. No follow-up questions to allow Ash to elaborate, but always a defensive response.

Why on earth would she defend prostitution!

I also think that is it sensible to use a degree of scepticism about the motivations of bodies such as the WHO and Amnesty that have influence on policy. We already know that Amnesty seem to have forgotten women's rights when they are pushing for trans rights or privileges. It is an obvious target for men with particular agendas to gain influence in influential organisations.

Like them or not these 2 are the world's leading on human rights and health matters. Amnesty Int. came to their decision to support decriminalisation of sexwork in 2014 (or around that time) after input from their 80+ offices around the world and researching sexwork worldwide. Joining them are a long list of other health, HIV/AIDs, anti-trafficking/slavery, immigration and sex worker orgs who also oppose the Nordic Model and support complete decrim instead.

When it comes to the time for parliament debate I certainly hope both sides will be looked at including the reasons all these orgs are against the Nordic Model.

Personally I would listen to what Amnesty and WHO have to say over the Christian Institute (one of Regan's main supporters for this).

You have a very keen interest in decriminalising prostitution Chris, you pop up on every thread about it.

Absolutely. The power of pimps seems to equal the power of extreme transactivists when it involves grooming and exploiting the young with the once respected Amnesty leading the charge.

I think history (including recent history) has shown that there are many influential organisations that cannot be trusted to act in women’s best interests.

Amnesty international that think gc people shouldn't be allowed to vote that Amnesty

Go Ash! Prostitution is inherently exploitative and cannot be made safe. What kind of man wants to have sex with a woman he knows does not actually want to have sex with him?

Most prostituted women want out and most have trauma. The happy hooker is a fantasy.

Personally I would listen to what Amnesty and WHO have to say over the Christian Institute (one of Regan's main supporters for this).

Of course you would. Presumably the Christian Institute doesn't support "complete decrim". Why do you want prostitution completely decriminalised?

The Christian Institute supports the Nordic Model. This is why the Nordic Model passed so easily in N.Ire and the ROI- the church over there has a lot more power than it does in Britain. In 2015 (some historical background) MSP Rhoda Grant's Nordic Model private member bill failed, she relied very heavily on people who attended church to support her given the consultation responses. Turns out Rhoda Grant had contacted every church in Scotland and asked them to show a pro Nordic-Model documentary then ask their members to respond to the consultation. The responses to her public consultation were things like "prostitution is against God's law so I support her bill".

"Why do you want prostitution completely decriminalised?"

Why do human rights, health, anti-HIV, anti-trafficking, immigration, sex worker orgs support decrim? You could have a look at my links above, one is an open letter with many signatures.

More info- article from yesterday showing the Scottish Gov has acknowledged Regan's bill "lacks evidence" it will improve matters for sex workers. Research from N. Ire and ROI show the Nordic Model has not reduced demand. Business as usual and as I pointed out the ROI has had one client conviction in a decade. Meanwhile sexworkers are still criminalised for working together which ironically means more sexworkers are being convicted than clients are under the Nordic Model.

Paywall so archive provided:
https://archive.ph/DnlFp

"the ROI has had one client conviction in a decade."

Correction- I meant Northern Ireland.

Decriminalisation increases prostitution. Look at the human trafficking in Amsterdam. Where there's demand for women to use like live sex dolls, there will be sex trafficking.

Give your head a wobble.

Amsterdam and the rest of the Netherlands have legalisation. So far only NZ, Belgium (as of 2022) and parts of Australia have decriminalisation (many states have changed from legalisation to decrim in recent years).

"Where there's demand for women to use like live sex dolls"

Something I've noticed about the pro Nordic-Model supporters is the use of manipulative/emotional language. Instead of debating whether the NM would actually improve matters for sex workers, certain "buzz" words and phrases are used. "Violence against women and children", "pimp lobby" comparing sex workers to takeaway pizzas or sex dolls (which IMO sounds a very degrading comparison).

Ash Regan knows what she's doing. Just hearing the words "violence against women" (she makes a point of saying these words a lot) will automatically make some people emotional and AR can use that to manipulate them into supporting her.

I hope when the topic is debated in parliament politicians will be on the watch for what specific words are used and ensure decisions are made on facts and evidence.

Selling your body for sex is degrading, there’s no two ways about it. If prostitution were legal the amount of H&S and PPE required would make it unworkable and for good reason.

Nuala Mcgovern was shockingly hostile and aggressive with a Sudanese woman yesterday - when the woman was trying to explain her perspective and experience of the Sudanese civil war. Nuala kept saying how " complex" the situation was and in doing so dismissing what the woman was saying.

My instinct was telling me that it was because Nuala was trying to avoid the accusation that westerners were so obsessed with the. supposed "genocide" in Gaza, that they had no time or interest in what was going on elsewhere.

Did anyone else hear that interview?

I think you are showing a lack of understanding about Ireland, Christinapple, when you write that 'the [sic] church over there has a lot more power [In NI and the Republic] than it does in Britain'.

There is not one church in Ireland, and there is a huge difference between churches in NI and in the Republic. The most obvious one is denomination - NI is [decreasingly] majority Protestant, the Republic majority [nominally] Catholic. Within that, there is a range of Protestant denominations, sects and groupings in NI, with a range of attitudes to social issues. In the Republic, the power of the Catholic church is hugely diminished - the church is seen as being at odds with current liberal social policy on matters such as transgenderism.

The idea that the catholic church has enough power to push the Nordic Model, or anything else, is decades out of date.

There could be a number of potential explanations for the low conviction rate for buying sex. There may be reasons similar to those for the low conviction rate in related crimes e.g. those 'buzz words' that irk you - rape and violence against women.

There would have to be detailed study to obtain the 'facts and evidence' both you and I value before jumping to the conclusion that it is the legislation, rather than its enforcement, which is at fault.

One obvious explanation is that prostitution is such a ubiquitous crime - there are hundreds of women, many of them trafficked into the country, forced to work in the brothels that exist all over Ireland, some of them are what are known as 'pop-up' brothels, which advertise their location, and then shut up shop and move on to another location. These are slick operations, and it must be very difficult to keep track of them and get evidence for a conviction.

But the fact that it's difficult to get a conviction doesn't mean that the police shouldn't enforce The Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act 2017 with the same vigour as any other law.

edited to remove those pesky asterisks that appear out of the blue!

Hypothetically I suppose that complete decriminalisation might be possible as long as prostituted women and their pimps had to be in line with all relevant laws around employment, so tax, NI, H&S laws etc? (Which would obviously not be possible so it would need to stop anyway...)

I do not rate Nuala in the slightest. Such a disappointment after Emma B. Nuala is the epitome of the why can’t we all just get along liberal ‘progressive’ including the likelihood that she’s in favour of sex positivity and sex work is work mantra. I hardly listen to WH now.

really pedantic point. but it irks me
there is no such thing as a private members bill at Holyrood - that’s Westminster
Holyrood has both private bills and member’s bills. Ash Reagan has brought forward a member’s bill.

Decriminalising means that prostitution becomes another business model but without the slightest possibility that, for example, health and safety laws will apply or be enforced. What kind of employment contracts will the women have to sign? The capitalist profit driven business model means that there’d be some men or maybe some sharp McKinsey consultants advising on strategy to expand and drive revenue. A need to increase advertising, using TikTok to attract younger customers, encouraging new customers with two for one vouchers, buy 9, get one free, great you drive demand, but this means you need to increase supply. So more customers means a need for more prostitutes, but wait what if more women don’t want to lie on their backs getting f*&ked by men all day, so what is a business to do? Trafficking vulnerable women from economically depressed countries is one option. Encouraging drug addiction is another. Younger women unaware of what theyre signing up for maybe. The end result is further normalisation of the idea that women’s bodies are there to be purchased to serve men. More women being exposed to violence, degradation, exploitation.

I mean @Christinapple what isn’t there to like? Maybe you’d like to buy shares in these businesses once they go to an IPO to raise funds for bigger premises? The ROI is sure to be double digits. And rest assured that it’s always the workers who get the big bucks, isn’t it? Not a model where the CEO and senior exec rake in the millions in board approved annual bonuses for increasing revenue.

A reminder of one woman’s damascene moment:

How Faika El-Nagashi went from Sex Work is Work to abolitionist
9 replies

Mermoose · 12/05/2025 07:36
What started as an attempt to name and confront the exploitation of migrant women had become something else entirely: a celebration of the system itself. A cover-up of its brutality, complicit with a structure it has no intention of disrupting—rebranded in the language of autonomy, choice, and pride. For over a decade, I was one of the most prominent voices in Austria arguing for the “sex work is work” framework. I no longer believe that rights language can compensate for the inherent risks at the core of this system—especially when everyone has become so skilled at explaining the violence away. But it’s not incidental. It’s structural. And we have to stop protecting the systems that make it inevitable.
https://open.substack.com/pub/faikaelnagashi/p/what-i-want-to-say-about-sex-work