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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I regret to inform you that the CIPD are at it again

17 replies

HermioneWeasley · 28/06/2025 11:40

at their bizarrely named “festival of work” spouting nonsense about the Supreme Court decision

x.com/seeninhr/status/1938892700016877588?s=46&t=ujkdP8xmA6DNFeYFKmnldg

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 28/06/2025 15:11

Again? I thought they'd started to roll back from some of their insane trans batshittery? (or was that a different group)

HermioneWeasley · 28/06/2025 17:37

I thought it was just incompetence, but they’re doubling down now and I don’t know if you saw the story about Peter Cheese inviting TW Katie Neeves to talk to his staff and “Katie” talked about how wearing women’s underwear made him feel “dirty” 🙄. During a workplace talk! Looks like they’re captured

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GallantKumquat · 29/06/2025 23:51

HermioneWeasley · 28/06/2025 17:37

I thought it was just incompetence, but they’re doubling down now and I don’t know if you saw the story about Peter Cheese inviting TW Katie Neeves to talk to his staff and “Katie” talked about how wearing women’s underwear made him feel “dirty” 🙄. During a workplace talk! Looks like they’re captured

Katie of Cool2BTrans, aka Legz Akimbo

HermioneWeasley · 30/06/2025 07:51

GallantKumquat · 29/06/2025 23:51

Katie of Cool2BTrans, aka Legz Akimbo

Yup. An extraordinary choice for any org to impose on their workforce

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Igmum · 30/06/2025 08:03

Oh FFS. Surely the job of the CIPD is to tell HR people what the law is. They may then wish to discuss how to help trans people in work within the law but they need to be very clear about what the law actually is. 🤦‍♀️

HermioneWeasley · 02/07/2025 22:35

Igmum · 30/06/2025 08:03

Oh FFS. Surely the job of the CIPD is to tell HR people what the law is. They may then wish to discuss how to help trans people in work within the law but they need to be very clear about what the law actually is. 🤦‍♀️

You would think. They also seem to be waiting for thr EHRC guidance before updating their trans guidance (4th edition now!), when they should be reading the ruling and getting on with it. The EHRC guidance is intended for small orgs that don’t have their own legal advice

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nauticant · 03/07/2025 12:26

The CIPD are discussed in the latest episode of This Isn't Work with Helen Joyce and Inji Duducu. The episode examines the question: Who's Ignoring The Supreme Court Ruling - And Why?

This link is time-stamped to the point leading into discussion about the CIPD but the whole video is a fascinating watch/listen.

nauticant · 03/07/2025 12:33

Inji Duducu: So they [the CIPD] started to use language. They stopped using the word woman. They started doing that awful thing of referring to us by kind of body parts and bodily functions. My favorite was when they referred to women as the menstruating workforce, which, as someone said, it makes that makes it sound like that's what we're paid to do.

PrettyDamnCosmic · 03/07/2025 12:41

nauticant · 03/07/2025 12:33

Inji Duducu: So they [the CIPD] started to use language. They stopped using the word woman. They started doing that awful thing of referring to us by kind of body parts and bodily functions. My favorite was when they referred to women as the menstruating workforce, which, as someone said, it makes that makes it sound like that's what we're paid to do.

My favorite was when they referred to women as the menstruating workforce

but don't refer to men as the ejaculating workforce.

I'm literally in the middle of listening to this excellent podcast.

HermioneWeasley · 03/07/2025 12:45

Thanks for the link, will listen.

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nauticant · 03/07/2025 13:02

Tanya de Grunwald: I have a new spy within the CIPD who's who's getting in touch with me to say that lots of the people there have been there a very, very long time. They're actually older than you might think they are. There are there are some young ones as well, but not very many. And it's and the culture there is very much be kind more than that kind of activist. You think that's the more dominant thing, and they think that they're being kind, and they've just sort of been there for too long. A lot of them have never worked anywhere else as well. And I'm a little bit nervous that actually CIPD still seem to be quite cozy with. Lewis Silkin, who were the law firm who did the first guidance. So I'm a little bit concerned that that that that even though that first guidance turned out to be very, shall we say, problematic, I think they're still knocking around in the same same space that Lewis Silkin was certainly at the CIPD festival of work conference a few weeks ago. So I'm a little bit concerned about that, but I don't think anyone ever leaves the CIPD Helen. I think they, I think they retire.

GallantKumquat · 03/07/2025 14:37

nauticant · 03/07/2025 13:02

Tanya de Grunwald: I have a new spy within the CIPD who's who's getting in touch with me to say that lots of the people there have been there a very, very long time. They're actually older than you might think they are. There are there are some young ones as well, but not very many. And it's and the culture there is very much be kind more than that kind of activist. You think that's the more dominant thing, and they think that they're being kind, and they've just sort of been there for too long. A lot of them have never worked anywhere else as well. And I'm a little bit nervous that actually CIPD still seem to be quite cozy with. Lewis Silkin, who were the law firm who did the first guidance. So I'm a little bit concerned that that that that even though that first guidance turned out to be very, shall we say, problematic, I think they're still knocking around in the same same space that Lewis Silkin was certainly at the CIPD festival of work conference a few weeks ago. So I'm a little bit concerned about that, but I don't think anyone ever leaves the CIPD Helen. I think they, I think they retire.

This is a really interesting observation by de Grunwald; it addresses the question of how do organizations become ideologically captured and why is GI so difficult to dislodge. It's easy to imagine that it's youthful, ideologically motivated activists who, once they get hired by these organization, terrorize executive management, by having their hands on the social media accounts and with allegations of micro aggression, lack of 'safety' and all manor of discriminations. And there's probably is an element of truth to that in some cases.

But de Gruwald's thesis that she's pursued in 'This Isn't Working is that the underlying cause is a lack of professionalism and the decline in basic industry standards, in effect that institutions like the CIPD have stopped doing their job. Not only that, but they've lost sight of what their job actually is. I think it's a useful analysis because it answers the twin question of why private and public bureaucracies have become so ideologically driven and why they've become so inefficient and ineffective. We can see that in the NHS, with the national trust, and with the HR function in many private companies.

HermioneWeasley · 03/07/2025 15:12

Her observation about Lewis Silkin is interesting- it’s the same concern SEEN in HR have expressed too, that they were the lawyers who signed off on the first set of guidance and for some reason the CIPD have kept them around

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FeedbackProvider · 03/07/2025 15:37

Very interesting video. I haven’t heard much talk about director liability and criminal law in this context previously. Here’s a link to a relevant section of the video:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=mZhUo10TRpc&t=4841s

nauticant · 03/07/2025 15:42

Lewis Silkin put false and misleading advice about the Supreme Court judgment on the Internet and then in the face of loads of people telling them they were being misleading they quietly replaced it:

https://x.com/BobDiscom/status/1914364758574375142

MrsOvertonsWindow · 03/07/2025 17:44

Thanks for that link @nauticant . That was an enjoyable listen - 3 well informed, intelligent and knowledgeable women to listen to.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 03/07/2025 18:59

Thanks for the "This Isn't Working" link @nauticant.

At one point Inji Diducu used the word "allyship". I'm not convinced that "allyship" is a good model for including people in workplaces and professional organisations.

What happens when one group has recruited powerful allies and another hasn't? What happens when people within a group strongly disagree, for example what position are the "allies" of "LGBT+" people supposed to take when at least some of the L and the T are in conflict?

There need to be some strong guardrails around "allyship".

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